• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Fined

Richard,
Biggest problem here is that you are asking for reasons to keep the close, we dont have to justify it as it is as it is..... (I liked that)............ Whats the justification for doing away with it other than that you could go fishing on rivers more? Just selfish if you ask me, more, more, more.

Edit.......... As Keith has just said too. :)


One of the nice things about the close is it gives one three months to hop on a jet and fish somewhere which has no close season.;)
 
I cannot believe any right minded person would consider the UK rivers more polluted now than the 70s, biggest problem with many is they are too clean, ie not enough nutrients!

Rivers may look clean when gin clear Ian , but i can assure you.. they are not..and still full of poisons, carcinogins, synthetic hormones and other nasties! Dare you to drink some neat from the river with no treatment and removal of the invisible substances present:)
 
Damn right Ade.. :)

David, Thats more like it.

Ray, true, but they are still cleaner than they were in the 70's.
 
Last edited:
Most of the obvious toxic chemicals (spills apart) are no longer discharged into our rivers. These toxic compounds include, organic compounds from the dying industry, petrochemicals, heavy metals (mercury, cadmium, lead etc), coal bi-products and anything else that you can think of from industrial processes. It is correct, as one member pointed out that there was less of a problem in the south due to a relative lack of industry. Any rivers near industrial areas will have copped it and about the only fish to survive the low oxygen conditions at the time, ironically, would have been eels. So there were two issues, straightforward poisoning and very low oxygen content of the water. Most of these pollutants are no longer present in our rivers.

What we have now are phosphates from our industrial/domestic washing machines, sewage works can't remove these, together with phosphates and nitrates run off from agricultural activities finding their way into the rivers. Some of the sheep dips include organo-phosphorus compounds (related to nerve gases) and insecticidal sprays from farming can all find their way into the watercourses. Phosphates and nitrates promote plant/weed growth like there's no tomorrow. As for the birth control discharge having an impact, I'd be a bit surprised but if that were the case then you could probably add antibiotics into the equation. Water sampling should "flush" out these two potential culprits.
 
Jim
When you see, and sometimes hook ladies ST's coming out of the Wargrave sewerage plant directly into the river Loddon you know that the filtering isn't quite working.

This happens often during flood times.

It is also the stretch where the roach sampling, by the EA, proved they were becoming asexual with both male and female characteristics and unable to spawn.

Graham
 
Good sum up Jim, I believe the organo-phosphorus compounds in sheep dip are banned now.

Thanks, Tony, and you are correct. I'm not sure when the practice was banned. Didn't half work though. As for the farm labourers.....And bring back DDT, the cormorant issue would disappear and probably otters too.
 
Jim
When you see, and sometimes hook ladies ST's coming out of the Wargrave sewerage plant directly into the river Loddon you know that the filtering isn't quite working.

This happens often during flood times.

It is also the stretch where the roach sampling, by the EA, proved they were becoming asexual with both male and female characteristics and unable to spawn.

Graham

In theory there should be no solid waste matter escaping from sewage works and as you pointed out this happens when the works becomes overloaded with flood water. But this is no excuse whatsoever. One possible benefit of being a member of the EU is that this issue should be nailed under their directives. The water companies should be hit hard to force them to upgrade and put in the necessay investment. Another reason for this country's need for more people and more houses.

And, incidentally, ladies' STs should not be in the sewage system in the first place and should correctly be assigned to landfill sites.

The fact that the roach sampled downstream were showing both sexual characteristics is a pretty strong pointer to the effect of oestrogen in the water.
 
In theory there should be no solid waste matter escaping from sewage works and as you pointed out this happens when the works becomes overloaded with flood water. But this is no excuse whatsoever. One possible benefit of being a member of the EU is that this issue should be nailed under their directives. The water companies should be hit hard to force them to upgrade and put in the necessay investment. Another reason for this country's need for more people and more houses.

And, incidentally, ladies' STs should not be in the sewage system in the first place and should correctly be assigned to landfill sites.

The fact that the roach sampled downstream were showing both sexual characteristics is a pretty strong pointer to the effect of oestrogen in the water.

I think the learned poster encourages us to adapt to the changing environment if we want to better ourselves as anglers and indeed as people. So here, this suggests we should dress our baits more provocatively if we want to attract the larger roach. Also, BEFORE presenting a bait, some soft music and mood lighting (which probably means fishing at dawn or dusk for a more romantic ambience) from the bankside might help get them in the mood. It might look odd to the more traditional angler, but their the ones who will be blanking. Anyway, you can always use a gramophone for a more traditional look and feel. If that doesn't work, just hardcore fish porn should do it.
 
Most of the obvious toxic chemicals (spills apart) are no longer discharged into our rivers. These toxic compounds include, organic compounds from the dying industry, petrochemicals, heavy metals (mercury, cadmium, lead etc), coal bi-products and anything else that you can think of from industrial processes. It is correct, as one member pointed out that there was less of a problem in the south due to a relative lack of industry. Any rivers near industrial areas will have copped it and about the only fish to survive the low oxygen conditions at the time, ironically, would have been eels. So there were two issues, straightforward poisoning and very low oxygen content of the water. Most of these pollutants are no longer present in our rivers.

What we have now are phosphates from our industrial/domestic washing machines, sewage works can't remove these, together with phosphates and nitrates run off from agricultural activities finding their way into the rivers. Some of the sheep dips include organo-phosphorus compounds (related to nerve gases) and insecticidal sprays from farming can all find their way into the watercourses. Phosphates and nitrates promote plant/weed growth like there's no tomorrow. As for the birth control discharge having an impact, I'd be a bit surprised but if that were the case then you could probably add antibiotics into the equation. Water sampling should "flush" out these two potential culprits.

Not exactly true...When they abstract and treat water for human consumption, the removed industrial waste products, heavy metals, pesticide residues, pathogens etc, which are filtered via sand or other, are flushed 'back' into the river from whence they came.... and in a more concentrated form. Yes, they should be removed from the cycle as a 'hazardous waste', but they aint i'm afraid. Alternatively, what they do, is discharge the possibly toxic wet sludge harbouring all the nasties into lagoons on farm land (as they do down here in Dorset) which then slowly seep into the feeder streams and again entering into the main river. When the lagoons are full of the said sludge (and someone complains at the smell or other), they then remove it and spread it on the fields where cattle graze and eat the grass etc! So it all eventually gets washed back into the river via runoff or enters the water table and/or enters into the food chain via the cattle, sheep etc...including the human food chain.
Again, most sewage works nowadays are equiped to remove phosphates, but only remove them 'partially' to a legal level required by the EA and the government, just like many other substances. Even in treated drinking water, there are always traces of the poisons left that have not been removed! They don't kill you outright though, but they are/can be 'accumulative' in ones body over a long period of time. Many people end up and die with cancers and problems usually later in life, and it aint all down to smoking and air pollution i'm afraid.
They may have also banned the usage of certain substances in recent times, but they are still present in our rivers settled out on the riverbed and in silt and mud, and often re-surface back into the river/canals. Food for thought!

Also the discharging by STW's of Raw Sewage is a legal licenced practice authorised by the EA, (the guardians of the river environment) in times of flood, but they do it at other times as well when no one is looking or monitoring them, and usually at night. Why, well it costs them money to treat it fully, so more in the pockets for the shareholders if they can get away with it...and they do!
Why do you think the EA cut down overhanging trees along our riverbanks and take out vegetation obstructions. It is because that when a STW discharges 'raw sewage' when the river rises as Graham says, tiolet paper, nappy liners, condoms, sanitary towels etc would get caught up in the branches and obstructions for all the public to see and expose the issue
 
Last edited:
Jim
When you see, and sometimes hook ladies ST's coming out of the Wargrave sewerage plant directly into the river Loddon you know that the filtering isn't quite working.

This happens often during flood times.

It is also the stretch where the roach sampling, by the EA, proved they were becoming asexual with both male and female characteristics and unable to spawn.

Graham

Do you use a bolt rig for that Graham?
 
[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"Also the discharging by STW's of Raw Sewage is a legal licenced practice authorised by the EA, (the guardians of the river environment) in times of flood, but they do it at other times as well when no one is looking or monitoring them, and usually at night. Why, well it costs them money to treat it fully, so more in the pockets for the shareholders if they can get away with it...and they do!
[/COLOR]

And your evidence for this happening is what exactly? I am aware of cases where failure of pumps, blockage etc can cause crude sewage to be discharged but I would be very interested if you have any hard evidence of it being a deliberate act to avoid treatment costs. Which sewage works, when?
 
in times of flood and flash floods, sewers get flushed out to prevent back up, not so sure it's done under normal conditions.
 
And your evidence for this happening is what exactly? I am aware of cases where failure of pumps, blockage etc can cause crude sewage to be discharged but I would be very interested if you have any hard evidence of it being a deliberate act to avoid treatment costs. Which sewage works, when?

You need to do some research yourself David. Some discharges are logged on STW computers, but only once a month or at intervals or at random, as used to be the case. The data was then directed to the EA computers also to where the public could gain print outs of the data over the past year or so. Seems like this data was never checked for illegal discharges unless there was a fish kill reported or a complaint made. If no complaint is/was made, then this was considered 'satisfactory' by the EA/NRA. This computer data can then be checked against the consent licence issued, and as to whether they have complied with the licence or broken the law. Problem is nowadays, is that the EA have allowed the STW's and Water Treatment Companies to monitor discharges 'themselves', and hoping they are honest and grass themselves up if they have illegally polluted a stretch of river, just like a burglar reporting himself to the police when he has just robbed someone’s house! haha. The info of such incidents of emptying the sediment tanks comes from employees working at the sewage works at night! A few of us saw it happening down here also... and not in flood conditions. If you know what to look for, you will usually see the aftermath of such incidents of discharged raw or partially treated sewage in the morning downstream. Also, if you carry water testing equipment, (which no average angler does) you can sometimes identify that something is up visually or by testing the water quality at that time. Reporting such incidents to the EA is virtually useless, unless you find or have a fish kill, which is then too late. Sorry but no direct EA monitoring of Water Treatment Companies or Water Company owned STW’s, means there is no prevention of illegal discharges and fish kills. Anglers and fishery owners really have to do it all themselves nowadays.
The other thing that bugs me is that when a STW does discharge raw Sewage, shouldn't the public be getting 'rebates' on their water and sewage charges, as no costly treatment is carried out, which is what we pay for to keep the rivers and environment safe?

Most English and Welsh rivers too dirty for new European standards
Report says only 5 out of 6,114 are in pristine condition.
Government could be taken to court or fined…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/22/pollution-rivers-environment-agency-england

UK inland water quality and pollution statistics.
Last updated: 18 November 2012
http://www.ukrivers.net/state.html

SALMON AND TROUT ASSOCIATION SUBMITS LEGAL COMPLAINT TO EUROPE AGAINST UK GOVERNMENT
Complaint by Salmon & Trout Association highlights lack of delivery and years of prevarication in failure to comply with the Habitats Directive on River Avon SAC.
http://www.salmon-trout.org/downloa...shire Avon complaint September 2012 FINAL.pdf
 
Last edited:
Ray why do you keep posting in that blue colour ? its terrible to read and to be honest have now stopped trying !!!!
 
Ray is indeed right, had a seminar with people from Thames Water and the E.A.
the E.A. grant them to dump this sewage untreated, but guess what they are also the body responsible for fining them for the damage done. However if Thames Water tell them about the incident straight away it counts as mitigation against the charges brought against them later. This I believe is why we see water companies only being fined £20,000 as opposed to hundreds despite dumping huge volumes of raw sewage into the river, and why small private business that create relatively minor polution incidents (not saying its acceptable) get taken to town by the E.A. for as much as they can squeeze from them, this is what I gathered anyway. I'm sure I will be corrected in due course. It beggars belief quite frankly.
 
Back
Top