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Feel angry, sad and frustrated

Paul Bullinger

Senior Member & Supporter
I am sat here watching Paul Whitehouse on BBC 2 discussing our polluted rivers.
I suffer from high blood pressure so am trying hard not to get too wound up, but it's not easy!
Much has been said about the Water Companies and their lack of a moral compass but the fact they have helped themselves to £72bn of OUR money is a disgrace.
 
Well to put a brighter point on the comments so far.... At least its now getting more highlighted, a little more traction in the right direction....

Yes loads more to do, but we'll have our day. The likes of these guys highlighting this criminal activity is fantastic, I hear possibly Matt Hayes will be doing a new series & I did ask him to highlight the issues our national rivers are facing, both in terms of water companies & farming practices. He agreed!
 
I am sat here watching Paul Whitehouse on BBC 2 discussing our polluted rivers.
I suffer from high blood pressure so am trying hard not to get too wound up, but it's not easy!
Much has been said about the Water Companies and their lack of a moral compass but the fact they have helped themselves to £72bn of OUR money is a disgrace.
Absolutely, thing is this will cause waves... hopefully ripples.
 
Haven’t watched it yet but I received a letter this weekend saying that the company that provides my discharge services wants to put up the bill, I feel like offering to pay for the work they actually do. Putting the environmental vandalism to one side. We’re paying these people for a service, which they aren’t performing and they are profiting. They are no different to the waste collection people that fly tip your stuff instead of disposing of it correctly to make more money. Can you imagine if the bin men intentionally lost half the rubbish on the way to the tip?
 
Haven’t watched it yet but I received a letter this weekend saying that the company that provides my discharge services wants to put up the bill, I feel like offering to pay for the work they actually do. Putting the environmental vandalism to one side. We’re paying these people for a service, which they aren’t performing and they are profiting. They are no different to the waste collection people that fly tip your stuff instead of disposing of it correctly to make more money. Can you imagine if the bin men intentionally lost half the rubbish on the way to the tip?
Fly tipping at least you can see it. Sewage discharge is mostly hidden.
 
Well to put a brighter point on the comments so far.... At least its now getting more highlighted, a little more traction in the right direction....

Yes loads more to do, but we'll have our day. The likes of these guys highlighting this criminal activity is fantastic, I hear possibly Matt Hayes will be doing a new series & I did ask him to highlight the issues our national rivers are facing, both in terms of water companies & farming practices. He agreed!
Perhaps Paul Whitehouse involvement, the popular nations fishing chap will at least be the one to put this problem higher up the political agenda .Because there is only one way this mess will be cleaned up is making it an issue come a General Election.
Perhaps even dopey Charlie et all from BBC Breakfast who admits to wild swimming in the filthy Thames and those two women in the Wye who swim all weather amongst sewage discharge might at least highlight the problem along with the wonderful Paul Whitehouse
No longer should it be out of sight put of mind.
 
Perhaps Paul Whitehouse involvement, the popular nations fishing chap will at least be the one to put this problem higher up the political agenda .Because there is only one way this mess will be cleaned up is making it an issue come a General Election.
Perhaps even dopey Charlie et all from BBC Breakfast who admits to wild swimming in the filthy Thames and those two women in the Wye who swim all weather amongst sewage discharge might at least highlight the problem along with the wonderful Paul Whitehouse
No longer should it be out of sight put of mind.
And who would've thought punk frontman, Fergal Sharkey, would be the guy to speak up on such an issue. Good for him, you can sense the passion in his voice when he talks about the pollution in our rivers. He's got a "Good Heart" 😁
 
Its no mystery as to why the water companies pollute our rivers with raw sewage, effluent or Chemicals ...
Its all about profit, returns on investments, shareholder dividends etc., the more they clean up the discharges the more it costs, the less they spend the more their investors capitalise on their pensions and shares, just like the EA who invest their pensions in 7 out of the 10 water companies, they are benefactors of the of the water companies criminal behaviour.
My anger is towards the EA and Angling Trust who have the resource and infrastructure to take the water companies to task and to criminally prosecute the water companies CEO's the law is there to do it...
There is a massive conflict of interest going on, they think we are mugs.
 
Your anger towards the AT is misplaced Lawrence. The only reason the issue of sewage discharge permitting has come to light in quantifiable terms is because of some great work by the Fish Legal team in 2015. The landmark case involved the AT/Fish Legal taking action not only against United Utilities and Yorkshire Water but also Defra who sided with both of the water companies in trying to suppress the right for the public to be able to be provided with details of permitted sewage discharges.

I would suggest your anger would be better directed at the Government who have allowed this to happen, and deliberately neutered the two organisations responsible for holding the water companies to task, the EA and OFWAT.

Anglers need to get behind the AT and enable it to be properly resourced so they can pursue more legal cases against polluters. That means putting aside past grievances, yes they are not perfect, but who is? Yes they have made mistakes in the past, I cringe at some of their policies and sponsorships, but looking at the bigger picture they are a force for good.
 
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As I see it, the main problem is that the sanctions applied by the regulators are primarily fines on the companies. This may have some short term impact on profits but in the end it is us who end up paying the fines through increased charges. The only way to shake these businesses up and drive change in their behaviour is to make the senior executives and directors personally liable for their failure to meet their statutory obligations. Send them to prison for a few years and see what happens then!

The programme reinforces the evidence that has long been around but generally seems to be ignored by Parliament. It should be required viewing for all MPs who should also perhaps be visiting some of their local rivers to see the damage being caused by these discharges.


Dave
 
As I see it, the main problem is that the sanctions applied by the regulators are primarily fines on the companies. This may have some short term impact on profits but in the end it is us who end up paying the fines through increased charges. The only way to shake these businesses up and drive change in their behaviour is to make the senior executives and directors personally liable for their failure to meet their statutory obligations. Send them to prison for a few years and see what happens then!

The programme reinforces the evidence that has long been around but generally seems to be ignored by Parliament. It should be required viewing for all MPs who should also perhaps be visiting some of their local rivers to see the damage being caused by these discharges.


Dave
One of the contributors on the programme last night made the point that profit needed to be removed from the industry. I believe this is true, while the need to produce profits amd share holders dividends remains, the need to cut corners etc will remain. The case for state ownership of the water companies is unequivocal in my book.
 
Apart from the minor irritation of Mr Whitehouse never losing an opportunity to employ his arsenal of northern stereotype accents , it was a well put together programme highlighting an appalling situation of what in effect is legally sanctioned pollution . It has to be said however that to some degree we brought this situation on ourselves by voting in a government who flogged everything off ,encouraging us all to by shares in the brave new world of privatisation , millions of us literally bought in to this for short term gain . Decades down the line we are now living with this mess .Much as I would like to see it happen , full re nationalisation of public utilities like water is unlikely to happen , so what next ?

In the short term the EA , the people who are supposed to look after our waterways need to get their act together , from my experience they are generally poor in their core role of responding to incidents of pollution . I can recall at least 3 incidents where I observed pollution of my local rivers and reported it to them , their response ? Nothing , nobody turned up , nobody reported back to me on any proposed or planned actions , doesn't exactly fill you with confidence does it ? In terms of stopping the raw effluent pollution , the only solution will be to somehow re direct some of the vast profits made by the water companies in to improving the infrastructures so that raw sewage discharge is stopped .

The programme explained that this discharge happens because the water treatment facilities cannot cope with the demand to treat effluent , change this situation and we may be on the right track . This will require legislation to allow central government to have some influence / control over the water companies and their policies and procedures compelling them to invest in improving the treatment and discharge facilities .

Pressure groups that highlight pollution also need to act in unison rather than in isolation , a unified voice of anglers , swimmers , surfers, wildlife organisations etc can create more of a stink [sic] and effect change if they are of one voice and pool their resources to force government in to making change . History shows if politicians of whatever hue see votes there to be won or lost they WILL act , now is the time for us to apply pressure given that we will have to have an election in the next couple of years . Remember it was privatisation and the chance to make profit that charmed millions to vote in the government that largely created this situation in the first place . Power to the People !
 
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Your anger towards the AT is misplaced Lawrence. The only reason the issue of sewage discharge permitting has come to light in quantifiable terms is because of some great work by the Fish Legal team in 2015. The landmark case involved the AT/Fish Legal taking action not only against United Utilities and Yorkshire Water but also Defra who sided with both of the water companies in trying to suppress the right for the public to be able to be provided with details of permitted sewage discharges.

I would suggest your anger would be better directed at the Government who have allowed this to happen, and deliberately neutered the two organisations responsible for holding the water companies to task, the EA and OFWAT.

Anglers need to get behind the AT and enable it to be properly resourced so they can pursue more legal cases against polluters. That means putting aside past grievances, yes they are not perfect, but who is? Yes they have made mistakes in the past, I cringe at some of their policies and sponsorships, but looking at the bigger picture they are a force for good.

Your anger towards the AT is misplaced Lawrence. The only reason the issue of sewage discharge permitting has come to light in quantifiable terms is because of some great work by the Fish Legal team in 2015. The landmark case involved the AT/Fish Legal taking action not only against United Utilities and Yorkshire Water but also Defra who sided with both of the water companies in trying to suppress the right for the public to be able to be provided with details of permitted sewage discharges.

I would suggest your anger would be better directed at the Government who have allowed this to happen, and deliberately neutered the two organisations responsible for holding the water companies to task, the EA and OFWAT.

Anglers need to get behind the AT and enable it to be properly resourced so they can pursue more legal cases against polluters. That means putting aside past grievances, yes they are not perfect, but who is? Yes they have made mistakes in the past, I cringe at some of their policies and sponsorships, but looking at the bigger picture they are a force for good.
Their words, not mine, I would say they have failed wouldn't you?

 
Their words, not mine, I would say they have failed wouldn't you?

I would say that is both a simplistic and very harsh view. Having to battle against billion pound corporations backed by the Government and protected by the EA and OFWAT is not exactly an easy task. Made much harder by only being supported by a small proportion of anglers thanks to a combination of apathy and petty grievances.

I always wonder why those AT critics have never never formed their own campaign group to fight pollution? Put up or shut-up I reckon.
 
As I said in my earlier post , it is VOLUME of pressure that gets things done , whatever your view of the efficacy of groups that advocate for anglers/fish , on there own they will not bring about a significant change to this appalling situation . What will be more effective is if the various pressure groups combine their efforts to highlight the problem that they are all unhappy about , namely the legalised pollution of our rivers and streams . If a government sees a growing groundswell of discontent amongst large numbers of people , people that might vote for them , or even worse not vote for them but their political opponents then things will happen .Relentless pressure and direct action that does not go away can make change . A good example of this is the successful campaign that was waged to ban hunting with dogs . Years of pressure eventually forced the government to have an enquiry and the practice was outlawed . Now the parallels are not really there with the issue we are discussing here but if nothing else this example does show that with effective campaigning things CAN be changed . If this issue can be placed high up enough on the agenda of politicians then stuff will happen
 
I would say that is both a simplistic and very harsh view. Having to battle against billion pound corporations backed by the Government and protected by the EA and OFWAT is not exactly an easy task. Made much harder by only being supported by a small proportion of anglers thanks to a combination of apathy and petty grievances.

I always wonder why those AT critics have never never formed their own campaign group to fight pollution? Put up or shut-up I reckon.
No need for that Joe, it's about an opinion, yours is different to mine, I respect your view, since the formation of the AnglingTrust the pollution and predation situation has progressively got worse on their watch, the basis of the formation of Fishlegal ( AnglingTrust) is clear in their mission statement, they specifically mention in holding water companies to account, I haven't made anything up ....they have failed, the EA have failed, the only reason the water companies do what they do is because they know they will get away with it.
 
You are right Lawrence, the water companies do get away with it , what we need to do is to persuade the politicians to stop them getting away with it ! At the end of the day it is our elected representatives badgered by us ,the people, that vote them in that will change this situation . The key to getting something done is how effective we can be in keeping them under pressure to do something . Utilising the media , in whatever form, be it Paul Whitehouse on the telly or someone else on other platforms kicking up a stink is the key to keeping this issue in the spotlight and getting something done .
 
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