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Feel angry, sad and frustrated

I have to agree with you Paul . Effectively Paul Whitehouse backed off from challenging the chicken farmer ,even stating she was doing her '' level best '' to improve the situation, when clearly all she was doing was ticking the boxes and obeying the rules as they stand , rules which do very little to protect the rivers . It was heartening to see the surfers and swimmers of Whitstable band together and put together a very public protest that clearly hit home with the EA . Impossible to be sure ,but there didn't seem to be any anglers in the vanguard of that particular demonstration . Unless anglers ally themselves to these movements that clearly do have some clout and are agents for change , we are are a lost voice of protest .
 
Sadly the typical attitude from those employed was , I am doing my job it's someone else not doing theirs causing the problem. Buck shifting seems to be the new national pastime.
 
20th March and only 15,577 signatures!
EF833CEB-F0F4-4E8D-A598-9AC5FC48BC0E.jpeg
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
I have to agree with you Paul . Effectively Paul Whitehouse backed off from challenging the chicken farmer ,even stating she was doing her '' level best '' to improve the situation, when clearly all she was doing was ticking the boxes and obeying the rules as they stand , rules which do very little to protect the rivers . It was heartening to see the surfers and swimmers of Whitstable band together and put together a very public protest that clearly hit home with the EA . Impossible to be sure ,but there didn't seem to be any anglers in the vanguard of that particular demonstration . Unless anglers ally themselves to these movements that clearly do have some clout and are agents for change , we are are a lost voice of protest .
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yesterdays countrywide , admittedly normally very left wing, did provide some useful information. Leaving aside the complexities of agricultural rules, banning the use of high phosphate material such as chickens produce, near a waterway is one simple way to reduce its effect.
 
Paul Bullinger said:
As someone else said earlier in these series of posts, having watched Part 2 of Paul Whitehouse programme about pollution in our rivers, I am not sure he was the best person to present it. I like the guy. He and Bob Mortimer have introduced fishing to a wider audience but I think he is too "jokey" for such a serious matter as sewage in our rivers.
The female chicken farmer was a good example. She rears a million chickens a year and not only does she not have any idea what's in their feed (!) she also thinks that spreading the chicken poo 3 metres from the river stops it polluting. So when it rains she doesn't think the rain could wash it into the river?
Paul Whitehouse didn't challenge her on either of these remarks. I just can't believe that curiosity didn't get the better of her to find out what her chickens were ACTUALLY eating!
Think the fast food industry has a lot to answer for.
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I was a disappointed in the 2nd episode. I'm surprised they actually used the bit with the lady poultry farmer as it seemed pretty obvious to me that she was a bit of a set-up from Avara. Clever tactic to have her front-up as she was very agreeable, but clearly utterly clueless and obviously not that involved in the farm operations. It wouldn't have been a smart move from Paul Whitehouse to fiercely grill her and expose her lack of knowledge - it would have made him look like a bully and would have weakened some of the good stuff in the program. It was a totally useless segment to all intents and purposes.
 
Alec Hague said:
yesterdays countrywide , admittedly normally very left wing, did provide some useful information. Leaving aside the complexities of agricultural rules, banning the use of high phosphate material such as chickens produce, near a waterway is one simple way to reduce its effect.
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The trouple is that every farm in that part of the world is near a watercourse. Ultimately if run-off enters a small ditch off a side stream of a tributary, or the main river itself, it finds its way to the same place in the end. And roads act as the same pathways as watercourses in most places.

I was unconvinced about the use of phytase as a solution. Even a 62% reduction in P being excreted by poultry still leaves a problem behind. And that if the 62% claims are true, elsewhere research suggests that triple dosing only reduces P by around 13%.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
The trouple is that every farm in that part of the world is near a watercourse. Ultimately if run-off enters a small ditch off a side stream of a tributary, or the main river itself, it finds its way to the same place in the end. And roads act as the same pathways as watercourses in most places.

I was unconvinced about the use of phytase as a solution. Even a 62% reduction in P being excreted by poultry still leaves a problem behind. And that if the 62% claims are true, elsewhere research suggests that triple dosing only reduces P by around 13%.
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I thought it sounded too good to be true. I agree entirely with your comment about watercourses. I have said for years the cause of the problem is the failure of politicians over 60 plus years of providing for population expansion. Human beings have travelled from wherever they are seeking a better life since the dawn of man.I suppose I also need to say women, children trans gays et all. The ramifications show in housing, education, health, food etc. Put simply we have not invested to provide for a 50% increase in population in just my lifetime. Pollution, is just one of many consequences.
 
Without going too much "off topic" I have for some years been concerned about the wider implications of water pollution and "fast/cheap" food production.
Due to insatiable demand for Bargain Buckets (other varieties are available) of cheap chicken, the UK industry around the Wye has expanded out of control. The worrying thing is no-one seems to know what the young chickens are fed on and I think there can be some pretty toxic animal feeds out there. What goes in must come out and we know the damage the poo is causing to our rivers.
The damage we DON'T see is to our drinking water (drawn from aquifers) and the chicken meat we consume.
As the Stand Up to Cancer "Bake Off" programme keeps reminding us "1 out of 2 of us will get cancer". Is that normal? Seems bloody high to me? 34 million people in the UK will get cancer? I think I'd be looking very closely at water and fast foods as a possible cause?
Apologies for being a grump!
 
Paul Bullinger said:
Without going too much "off topic" I have for some years been concerned about the wider implications of water pollution and "fast/cheap" food production.
Due to insatiable demand for Bargain Buckets (other varieties are available) of cheap chicken, the UK industry around the Wye has expanded out of control. The worrying thing is no-one seems to know what the young chickens are fed on and I think there can be some pretty toxic animal feeds out there. What goes in must come out and we know the damage the poo is causing to our rivers.
The damage we DON'T see is to our drinking water (drawn from aquifers) and the chicken meat we consume.
As the Stand Up to Cancer "Bake Off" programme keeps reminding us "1 out of 2 of us will get cancer". Is that normal? Seems bloody high to me? 34 million people in the UK will get cancer? I think I'd be looking very closely at water and fast foods as a possible cause?
Apologies for being a grump!
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I completely agree. If pointing out inconvenient facts is defined by grump, so be it. I am another .
 
Paul Bullinger said:
Without going too much "off topic" I have for some years been concerned about the wider implications of water pollution and "fast/cheap" food production.
Due to insatiable demand for Bargain Buckets (other varieties are available) of cheap chicken, the UK industry around the Wye has expanded out of control. The worrying thing is no-one seems to know what the young chickens are fed on and I think there can be some pretty toxic animal feeds out there. What goes in must come out and we know the damage the poo is causing to our rivers.
The damage we DON'T see is to our drinking water (drawn from aquifers) and the chicken meat we consume.
As the Stand Up to Cancer "Bake Off" programme keeps reminding us "1 out of 2 of us will get cancer". Is that normal? Seems bloody high to me? 34 million people in the UK will get cancer? I think I'd be looking very closely at water and fast foods as a possible cause?
Apologies for being a grump!
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I don't believe there is any suggestion that the feed rations going into these poultry units contains anything specifically nefarious from a pollution perspective.

They will be fed standard rations containing ingredients such soya meal (probably grown on ex-amazian rainforest land or corridor using soya pre-impregnated with glyphosate), wheat, naked oats and protein sources which may include small amounts of fishmeal or other animal products. And antibiotics....

Nearly all poultry manures contain high levels of phosphate, it is an inherent issue.

From a human health perspective it is the antibiotics and glyphosate that concern me. Hence the only chicken I will eat is organic (although this can still have some pollution issues). Antibiotic resistance is supposed to be one of the biggest future threats to human health yet their routine use in food production systems is still widespread.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
I don't believe there is any suggestion that the feed rations going into these poultry units contains anything specifically nefarious from a pollution perspective.

They will be fed standard rations containing ingredients such soya meal (probably grown on ex-amazian rainforest land or corridor using soya pre-impregnated with glyphosate), wheat, naked oats and protein sources which may include small amounts of fishmeal or other animal products. And antibiotics....

Nearly all poultry manures contain high levels of phosphate, it is an inherent issue.

From a human health perspective it is the antibiotics and glyphosate that concern me. Hence the only chicken I will eat is organic (although this can still have some pollution issues). Antibiotic resistance is supposed to be one of the biggest future threats to human health yet their routine use in food production systems is still widespread.
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Interesting to read. I thought glyphosate was a green plant killer, IE as in roundup, suggested by some to have carcinogenic risks. When my wife was a farm secretary she said cereals were sprayed many times during growth. All positively harmless, I was assured.
 
Alec Hague said:
Interesting to read. I thought glyphosate was a green plant killer, IE as in roundup, suggested by some to have carcinogenic risks. When my wife was a farm secretary she said cereals were sprayed many times during growth. All positively harmless, I was assured.
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Have a read of this report which coincidentally just cropped up my LinkedIn timeline:

thinkregeneration.com

Regenerative Research: Glyphosate

Summary: Opinions about glyphosate use in agriculture systems are polarized: either glyphosate is a valid farming management herbicide, or it is an unneeded toxin that degrades human and environmental health. To confuse ...
thinkregeneration.com thinkregeneration.com
 
Ploughed through that, very much obliged. Illuminating and wow, no wonder nothing gets done, as no body agrees on anything these days! Yes, no, but!
 
News this morning …

www.bbc.co.uk

Ending sewage dumping will mean higher water bills - report

The House of Lords report blames government, regulator and water companies for pollution.
www.bbc.co.uk

It looks as if a lot that has been said here is also agreed upon in the report.
It will take a monumental effort to improve things but there must be the will to do it , heavy fines dont seem to work, perhaps jail and loss of big bonuses for chief execs would shake things up .

David
 
David Craine said:
News this morning …

www.bbc.co.uk

Ending sewage dumping will mean higher water bills - report

The House of Lords report blames government, regulator and water companies for pollution.
www.bbc.co.uk

It looks as if a lot that has been said here is also agreed upon in the report.
It will take a monumental effort to improve things but there must be the will to do it , heavy fines dont seem to work, perhaps jail and loss of big bonuses for chief execs would shake things up .

David
Click to expand...
Yes, I thought that too. The police situation has the same root cause.
 
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