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farlows lake, the end maybe???

One of the finest, recently taken photos (and the best, till-dying-day mental images) that I have seen was taken by a girlfriend of mine on a walk I took her and her two little girls on three or four years ago - a walk around Little Britain, with much duck, Canada goose and wildfowl feeding and attempted drowning done by the girls and the odd bit of chub-spotting and nodding at barbel-inclined Neanderthals smoking and canning in the hot July sun.

Then we reached the footbridge at the bottom of the lake, the one immediately above Iver Ford and Farlow's.

And coming up the ford, wading with and washing three, wildly coloured and clearly much-loved ponies were three be-jeaned, bare-chested gypsy boys...

Sight from another time that is still in my mind.
 
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i wouldn't begrudge them that right, there was a small group of them squatting on ford lane towards packet boat with some pony's, probably them.
 
Like any settled sort, I have mixed feelings about the travelling kind, but one thing I have known, ever since my "girlfriend" at primary school, Patsy, took me, nearly fifty years ago, to meet her "Gran", a lady with greying hair so long that she could sit on it, cooking a stew in an iron pot on an iron tripod over an open fire outside her and her man's traditional wooden van (with two horses grazing a distance off) on my local "Moor", that when such people finally disappear from these ordered islands of ours, all we will be left with are our suburban hanging baskets, a bit of rotting decking, a rusting barbie and our p'-poor lawns.
 
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Grew up with, know well, am at ease with, get on well with, such guys, Colin - at least until they start following you home, or to the river, or to your tackle-shop of many years, trying to discover just where you fish, then get the right 'ump when you rumble them. Sterling sorts, but a little on the "wide boy" side, a few of them.
 
Like any settled sort, I have mixed feelings about the travelling kind, but one thing I have known, ever since my "girlfriend" at primary school, Patsy, took me, nearly fifty years ago, to meet her "Gran", a lady with greying hair so long that she could sit on it, cooking a stew in an iron pot on an iron tripod over an open fire outside her and her man's traditional wooden van (with two horses grazing a distance off) on my local "Moor", that when such people finally disappear from these ordered islands of ours, all we will be left with are our suburban hanging baskets, a bit of rotting decking, a rusting barbie and our p'-poor lawns.

Hi Paul,

'Mixed' feelings? I know what you mean. When I was a child, and probably still when you were young, there were many stories in childrens books and comics (pre 'PC' of course :rolleyes:) which gave out very mixed messages about gipsies. Sadly, I feel the type of romany you describe from your childhood days are long gone, and even they were romanticised somewhat by folklore and rose tinted glasses. Memories are selective like that, probably to preserve our sanity :D

Certainly most of what we are left with now leave no room for 'mixed' feelings, and I can't see us being worse of without them. I have through business been on talking terms with several of the pikie/scap dealer/**** types over the years, and they are lawless ba....well, choose your own words :mad: I also have a close friend who is married into a fairground family, and I can tell you that the fairground folk despise the 'pikie' type almost as much as we do. Such is life.

Cheers, Dave.
 
i used to fish with a nice proper irish guy, now if i said the things he used to about some of these folk, i'd be arrested.
 
I'm not sure that it ever pays to stereotype people as there's good and bad in all walks of life. I grew up in a village in Sussex which was home to my Mother's side of the family for several generations and where, when she was a child, half of the population were gypsies, some settled, others not. In fact my Granddad, though not a gypsy, spoke their language and my Grandmother, though not from a gypsy family had a gypsy maiden name. So, obviously there was a time when, in that part of the country at least, traveling communities and settled communities tolerated and mixed with each other more kindly than they do today.

Of course, like most modern settled sorts, I generally have very little to do with travelers. About 15 years ago, however, I was employed by the Norfolk Travelers Education Service to illustrate two children's books, the first of which was specially designed to be appropriate to kids that live on Gypsy sites. To do the research for this I had to spend half a day with my camera on a travelers site and meet a family that were chosen to be the characters in the book. All I can say is that they were all very courteous and friendly and made me feel very welcome. I'm not so sure that they would have made me as welcome had I turned up unannounced but this experience did give me a somewhat different perspective on travelers than I had previously.

The second book was intended to be aimed at settled traveler's kids, who while living in houses alongside everyday communities, basically still saw themselves as travelers. That was also an interesting experience as I spent half a day with a settled traveler family, after which I was taken on a tour of one of the Norwich suburbs and had the houses of various settled travelers pointed out to me. Half of these houses looked extremely affluent, with many of them also having full sized caravans parked in the grounds. Various other things were pointed out, such as the symbols travelers use to signal their identity. This included stone horses heads set on the gateways and wagon wheels on the wall of the house. If I hadn't had this pointed out I'd have had no idea just home many gypsies live amongst us.

As for racial prejudice, which is what we are talking about here, I also learned that the travelers also have their own prejudices, with almost their own cast systems seemingly being in operation, with Romanies at the top and Irish Tinkers apparently considered to be scum.
 
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Caste?

Very much so, for the Roma or Romani came out of India.

Where they are still to be found today - in Rajasthan and other states as the Banjar or Banjara - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banjara - and as itinerant metalworkers, the Lohar or Loharus. I have seen both sorts many times and have had dealings with one tribe - I got it to make me a big batch of mahseer spoons - cast in brass, drill, then dull metal plate - but had to collect them at a spot thirty kilometres away to which they had moved their massive solid-wheeled cats and wagons, their pure-gypsy women and girls (all dangly earrings, colours and hair) and their massive, mastiff-like guard dogs (which wear nailed collars whilst travelling in the mountains and outlying districts, so that they survive a leopard attack)!
 
PS - The Lohars / Loharus are still about, I see - here is a photo of one of their carts that I found on the Net:

3707876531-gaduliya-lohars-nomadic-tribe-camp-oxcart-udaipur-india.jpg



PPS - Memory recapture: one group of these guys could do metal casting, the rest did metal-bashing. I had mahseer spoons done both ways. You should see the hand-engraved scales on one 3-inch spoon: I had given them a machine-stamped Scandinavian spoon with scales on its convex surface; the Lohars believed they could improve on the scales and produced nothing less than a little masterpiece - which they duly got their metal-casters to use as a blank to cast from in various weights (thickness of brass) as I had asked them, from 3/4 ounce to about 2 ounces. All for pennies they had asked, but I paid them rather more, as a gesture of goodwill.
 
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the travelers also have their own prejudices, with almost their own cast systems seemingly being in operation, with Romanies at the top and Irish Tinkers apparently considered to be scum.

That was exactly what I was meaning Chris, I was merely trying to couch it in kinder terms :D The bulk of the problematic lot are as you say the Irish, mixed with whatever dross gravitates towards them. They long ago discovered that shock tactics work...be loud, fast and aggressive and you can get away with almost anything, and vicious violence will take care of the rest . They have NO moral values and in fact look upon any form of honesty and decency as a form of weakness. They have long been aware that the police will avoid them like the plague, leaving them by and large free to carry on as they wish.

Good 'ere innit :(

Cheers, Davw.
 
That was exactly what I was meaning Chris, I was merely trying to couch it in kinder terms :D The bulk of the problematic lot are as you say the Irish, mixed with whatever dross gravitates towards them. They long ago discovered that shock tactics work...be loud, fast and aggressive and you can get away with almost anything, and vicious violence will take care of the rest . They have NO moral values and in fact look upon any form of honesty and decency as a form of weakness. They have long been aware that the police will avoid them like the plague, leaving them by and large free to carry on as they wish.

Good 'ere innit :(

Cheers, Davw.

You might be right there Dave.... I don't know? I'm just saying that they told me that they regard the Irish Tinkers as lowest of the low! Personally, I don't have a view on the matter!
 
I'm not sure that it ever pays to stereotype people as there's good and bad in all walks of life. I grew up in a village in Sussex which was home to my Mother's side of the family for several generations and where, when she was a child, half of the population were gypsies, some settled, others not. In fact my Granddad, though not a gypsy, spoke their language and my Grandmother, though not from a gypsy family had a gypsy maiden name. So, obviously there was a time when, in that part of the country at least, traveling communities and settled communities tolerated and mixed with each other more kindly than they do today.

Of course, like most modern settled sorts, I generally have very little to do with travelers. About 15 years ago, however, I was employed by the Norfolk Travelers Education Service to illustrate two children's books, the first of which was specially designed to be appropriate to kids that live on Gypsy sites. To do the research for this I had to spend half a day with my camera on a travelers site and meet a family that were chosen to be the characters in the book. All I can say is that they were all very courteous and friendly and made me feel very welcome. I'm not so sure that they would have made me as welcome had I turned up unannounced but this experience did give me a somewhat different perspective on travelers than I had previously.

The second book was intended to be aimed at settled traveler's kids, who while living in houses alongside everyday communities, basically still saw themselves as travelers. That was also an interesting experience as I spent half a day with a settled traveler family, after which I was taken on a tour of one of the Norwich suburbs and had the houses of various settled travelers pointed out to me. Half of these houses looked extremely affluent, with many of them also having full sized caravans parked in the grounds. Various other things were pointed out, such as the symbols travelers use to signal their identity. This included stone horses heads set on the gateways and wagon wheels on the wall of the house. If I hadn't had this pointed out I'd have had no idea just home many gypsies live amongst us.

As for racial prejudice, which is what we are talking about here, I also learned that the travelers also have their own prejudices, with almost their own cast systems seemingly being in operation, with Romanies at the top and Irish Tinkers apparently considered to be scum.

go into wraysbury, your never see a poor gyspy.
 
go into wraysbury, your never see a poor gyspy.

A scrap metal collector (pikie) I new for many years bought his son a large, brand new BMW for his eighteenth birthday....never paid a penny in income tax or national insurance in his life :rolleyes:

When the travelling fair comes to town, take a look at the cars parked outside the caravans...Range Rovers, Jeeps, Beamers, Audis.....not an old 'un amongst them...

Cheers, Dave.
 
The Chairman on Thursday

Subject: The English, a definition


A people who, both individually and collectively, have the same all-consuming and -tormenting thought, last thing at night before sleep and on waking the following morning (and at frequent times through the following day, prompted and reinforced by Mail, Express, Sun, Star, Telegraph etc reading matter), namely, that: "Someone, somewhere, probably in a caravan or in a benefits-payout mansion or somewhere ethnic, is getting away with things that I am not, but desperately wish I could.".


As ever,

B.B.

"The Beauchamps - Exquisitely Patronising Those We Privately Hold in Contempt, Since 1066"
 
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Hmm.

Police cars and vans and officers everywhere at the Cowley end of Iver Lane, a few hundred yards from Farlow's and Little Britain, this morning when I passed. I stopped and asked a local: "They raided a cannabis factory in one of the terraced houses last night. Clearing all the plants out...", she replied, seemingly unsurprised.

Nice.
 
Surely it should be called a cannabis farm?

The police could make it into a haystack to use as Exhibit A.
 
feed it to the lambs, hemp fed local lamb from the farm on mill lane....lol
 
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