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Do we really care ?

J

Jason Bean

Senior Member
I've lived and fished around Oxford for 7 years....to be honest the fishing on the thames tributaries is terrrible around Oxford and they're not getting any better...there's a few fish around but they're hardly healthy rivers, the Thames is good but hardly a barbel fishery around here....there is some real die hards that fish this area though and fair play to them and they struggle to get their just rewards.

I'll be honest and say around here anglers are either travelling elsewhere for better specimen river fishing, fishing lakes such as the Linear complex or putting up and accepting how **** our local fishing is...these guys that hang around tend to be the older die hard club anglers that talk of yester year.

Might be a dire way of looking at it but I feel it's an honest veiw of what's going on around here.....fair enough there is still lot's of good barbel rivers around the country and we can easily travel to fish them...but what happens when the likes of the Severn, Trent, Wye and the other up and coming barbel rivers go down hill ? Where do we/I go for my barbel bagging then ?

I don't think the long term outlook is rosey and I don't wear rose tinted spectacles....it's just a question...

When do we stop chasing the fish and take stock of what happens on our own doorsteps, because if the same scenario gets played out nationwide in what's happening around Oxfordshire we'll all be stuffed in the long term ?

that's what I think anyway..... I can only say it how I see it on
my own doorstep and I beleive this is not the only region suffering the same.

But how far will it go ?

Cheers
Jason
 
Jason very valid points.
I fish in and around Oxfordshire.I catch a few ,not as many as pre 2007.there is some fish out there.but Not the numbers there once was.I wish I had some answers.what I have found in this area,it is very up and down.had plenty of river carp over the last couple of seasons,mostly escapees..if the carp can survive why can't the barbel..mind you the massive bream shoals seem to have dwindled too...
Luke
 
Luke Ayling said:
Jason very valid points.
plenty of river carp over the last couple of seasons,mostly escapees..if the carp can survive why can't the barbel..mind you the massive bream shoals seem to have dwindled too...
Luke
Click to expand...
Could the presence of carp in the rivers, be linked with a decline in native species?
The spread of all non-native species (common carp, etc.) often have deleterious impacts on fragile aquatic ecosystems . It may not be the only reason, but could be part of the problem.
 
Luke Ayling said:
I wish I knew.think it's about time the EA looked into it maybe...

Luke
Click to expand...
I think you will find they just have. It was a specific question on the recent consultation about the new Bye Laws
Do you agree that non-native fish caught by rod and line from unenclosed waters must not be returned?
Click to expand...
The EA has not encouraged people to deliberately put carp into rivers,and has occasionally prosecuted those whose fisheries have allowed this to happen, but unfortunately with the massive increase in carp stocked commercials it was inevitable and this was something supported by the vast majority of anglers at the time (and still is).
We reap what we sow when we make any changes to the environment...we may all have to get used to carp being a major species in the river systems in years to come, with a subsequent decline in native species. There is a natural limit to the total bio mass that any particular river can support and the most successful species will always displace another.
 
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Luke Ayling said:
I wish I knew.think it's about time the EA looked into it maybe...

Luke
Click to expand...

Don't we all Luke !

I doubt that the EA will ever have the resources for a full and proper indepth study of the problems on any river, let alone one the size of the Thames, the funding just doesn't exist........ I don't want to go there !

If it ever were possible that such a full and comprehensive study were to take place i reckon the report would fill a dozen volumes the size of the yellow pages !:(

I don't think that there is any one problem at work here, some more serious than others no doubt, but i think it's the collective effect of probably hundreds of issues, that are overwhelming the ecology of rivers like the Thames, nature will always try to redress the balance, when one species is wiped out others will become more prominant ( not just talking fish here ) that find the enviroment more to their liking.

What we'll have in 50 years is anyones guess :(

Ian.
 
Ian and pete I totally agree..I can't understand since the 2007 floods the barbel just seem to have moved off in numbers..I caught them in numbers before the floods and during them.I can't belive they just vanish..
 
Jason, i think the upper thames decline is the now massive boat activity up there, the rivers not that wide and when fish are spawning i think a lot of this is ruined by the constant wash and holiday makers on boats churning up the shallows when they moor, as you know i aint an anti boater....j.w
 
Remember!

It was also believed that the decline in 'Roach' populations on the Hampshire Avon was due to Barbel being introduced and/or then colonising other areas.
No doubt that if one species begins to breed successfully and dominate an area, then some others species may move or decline in numbers.
So, just as carp, the introduction of barbel could also have a detrimental effect on other species present and to which which might upset the mixed species balance that is already stable....Ray
 
From my own personal perspective on this it's been making me think what i'll be fishing for and where....it's almost like it's pointless spercificaly targeting barbel in the Oxford area... particularly the tributaries.

It's a shame but all my barbel fishing will involve a fair bit of travelling, I'll be having one last effort on the Seacourt before the end of season....even this surprisingly healthy little stream seems to be going backwards at an alarming rate, barbel wise anyway odd but bream and tench still there?

Their is a bit of honesty needed though and just looking at the rivers this summer would you ever say the likes of the middle thames was barbel habitat....not really it was barely a canal, the Cherwell looked little more than a stagnent ditch...areas on the thames like medley, pure gravel and seemingly perfect habitat just don't support barbel any more....the tench and bream love it though ? the likes of the Teme going downhill with no real answers of yet ? Are we being effected by global warming already and the fish are starting to adapt ?

lot's of questions but no answers and I doubt there will be, the EA in all honesty have'nt got the funding to keep up with the goings on around here, crayfish, otters and mink merely exasperate the situation....it just looks like things are changing at quite a pace and I don't think we'll know why...

I'll just have to accept the travelling involved it seems

Cheers
Jason
 
Pete Marshall said:
Could the presence of carp in the rivers, be linked with a decline in native species?
The spread of all non-native species (common carp, etc.) often have deleterious impacts on fragile aquatic ecosystems . It may not be the only reason, but could be part of the problem.
Click to expand...
There has been a lot of carp present in the river Thames now for many years, I've been fishing for them for the best part of fifteen. I don't think that their presence has had a hugely detrimental effect on the barbel. The floods of 2007 however, had a devastating effect on many species throughout the river system. Catches of barbel. carp, chub and bream have been way down in my part of the middle Thames. In fact, this season it has been very rare to pick up a bream or a chub whilst carping. The big chub that were around pre-floods seem to have disappeared totally. However , I was fortunate to have caught a 15:03 barbel this season from the river and it came from the same swim that a friend first caught it from back in 2006, pre floods! I do think that the floods re-distributed fish throughout the river system, some areas suffering and some area benefiting. Certainly, there was influx of escapee carp from lakes along the course of the river, time will tell if this will have any effect. I would be much more worried about the long-term effects of the gradual spread of crays and mittens (a mitten was recently landed at Windsor I believe).
 
Are some of you chaps travelling further for the barbel fishing or changing what you fish for to stay local...that's what i'm thinking ahead for for next season.

spent alot of time on stretches where I used to catch and now I barely get a bite

cheers
Jason
 
Well i like many others in this area are quite lucky Jason, there's still good quality barbel fishing on offer within 30 min of where i live, so i don't have to travel any further than i've ever done.

Quite honestly i wouldn't either, if the barbel fishing ever got that bad, i would concentrate on another species, i just could never see myself traveling
great distances a couple of times a week or more, it would just get too stressful, the exact opposite of what i want from my fishing.

There are many on rivers i fish who have had a terrible season so far, whilst i've noticed a reduction in numbers of fish present, i can't say it's been that bad.
I think it's largely down to some anglers inability to adapt to the situation thats facing them.
Never the less there has been a very noticeable downturn without a doubt.

Ian.
 
IMO the decline in some of the Thames and tributaries has been noted for the past two to three years and I have commented on it before.

It's not just barbel. In reality only the perch and washed in carp have been really evident.

The noted numbers of juvenile roach and dace that were starting to show again three years or so ago have all but disappeared. The bream, such a nuisance in very large 1000 fish shoals up to double figures have also apparently gone. The rod tip used to rattle all night sometimes!

Over the last 3 years I have travelled further afield, to the Trent, Severn. Teme and more notably the river Wye in search of decent action. Probably a trip every 2-3 weeks.

Its also noted that the increase of sewerage released into the Thames over the past 12 months is over 10 x that of the previous amounts.

Of course there are still pods of barbel about, and some of the larger fish are still turning up. But as for a fish or a few, pretty much every trip as 3 years plus ago local to me, you might need to wait a decade or so for a real recovery.

All In my opinion.

Graham
 
Pete Marshall said:
Could the presence of carp in the rivers, be linked with a decline in native species?
The spread of all non-native species (common carp, etc.) often have deleterious impacts on fragile aquatic ecosystems . It may not be the only reason, but could be part of the problem.
Click to expand...

In certain parts of Australia carp are considered a pest.
So much so that by law you must not return them!!
 
On the subject of sewage Graham, i believe what came down the Thames in the July 2007 floods is a major factor in the apparent lack of fish in the Thames at least in the Reading to Maidenhead area. it would be interesting to find out just how far upstream the sewage was apparent.
Giving some clue as to where it originated from. There would have been an awful lot of slurry mixed in with it, and god knows what other pollutants, i.e run off from farm land in the form of fertilisers that would be in the soil to feed the crops of 2007.
I'm no expert on this kind of thing, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that prior to the floods the fishing was quite good, at least with regard to the previous season of 2006/7, 2007 kicked of quite well as i remember, then came the floods, after which the vast majority of the fish populations even in previously very productive areas such as St Patricks stream, seem to have been dramatically reduced.
There are still Barbel and chub present in these areas they've been caught, but in nothing like the numbers caught prior to the floods.

I believe that fish weren't just dispersed by the flood water, i think huge numbers may have died, because just where would they have been able to run to ?
Judging by the layer of raw sewage that was left on the fields adjacent to the Thames in the Charvil area, the river must have been turned into an open sewer, and being high summer could not have happened at a worse time.
Remember the sewage that was released into the tidal Thames in London and the fish deaths it caused, i can't imagine how the situation could have been any different in the berkshire area.
Does anyone know just how far up the sewage was apparent ?
I'm convinced this isn't going to be the last time we see this happening, and each time it happens will prevent any prospect of a real recovery for the river.
Yes the sewage will flush through, and what is left will degrade, but the damage left behind will as you say it could take a decade for the river to recover, but if we get these floods with the same consequenses as the last it never will.

The outlook i fear is pretty grim for rivers like the Thames, the needs of the population will always come first, and the investment needed to prevent the kind of pollution that London saw, and the Thames in 2007, i think with the present attidude of the water companies and the government will never be available.

Ian.
 
Ian.

It continues unabated until the Sewer tunnels are built.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...spill-of-raw-sewage-into-thames-kills-fish.do

It is also a fact that the debris washed through and now silting parts of the river system means that any fish ova that get silt on them simply don't hatch.

As I have reported a number of times to the EA Loddon consultative, and locally to your rivers, untreated sewerage including tampons are getting introduced into the river system including all the sex altering compounds.

Graham
 
Hi Graham, Ian and all.

I agree with Ian's hypothesis but we will never be able to prove it.

The one thing I disagree on is the length of recovery time. To get the fishing we were used to three years ago I think we are looking at nearer 20 years.

In terms of adapting to the altered conditions, the easiest way would be to fish more - not always the most big picture friendly solution!

Best wishes, Steve
 
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