Culling illegally stocked predators ?

[Joe Fletcher]

We all know about the decline of Barbel over the years and a lot of the problems have been put down to the increase in the number of Otters and Cormorants the problems that they are causing to fish stocks .
Over the years that I have fished for Barbel mainly on the W/Avon I would catch the odd Barbel weighing on average of about 1lb or more in weight .
I don’t know of any one’s else experiences when it comes to catching smaller Barbel of this size and for what ever reason they to seemed to of declined in numbers or completely vanished ?

So it begs the question who or what is the reason for there decline ?
Also I have noticed that where I fish on the W/Avon the numbers of small Chub and roach have declined as well . Where they were once common
Years ago when I have fished this particular stretch . It was common to catch loads chub of any given size and now all you catch is the odd fish up to 3 to 5lb and smaller Chub are not so common as they once were .

We all know what impact Otters have had since being reintroduced with out any thought they would have on the fish stocks .
We all know about the problem that Cormorants have caused since moving inland away from there natural environment and there have been calls for culling of both Otters and Cormorants .

Nobody ever seems to mention another predator that was introduced illegally many years ago in to our rivers and waterways and is not a native species to UK waters and evidence suggests that since there introduction and rapid spread they have had a big in pact on the native fish stocks .
The illegally stocked predator that I am talking about are Zander

So is it time we considered that any Zander caught should not be returned to the water and should be culled . After all it is legal to cull any Zander caught .
I know this will probably up set a few people to dare make a such a suggestion .
Out of all the three main predators Otters , Cormorants and Zander .
The only one that can be culled legally is the Zander
If Zander are munching there way through smaller Barbel and the result is diminishing numbers of smaller fish that will grow in to larger fish . Then don’t it make sense to start culling Zander .

Documents presented at the Symposium on Stock Enhancement in the Management of Freshwater Fisheries. Volume 2: Introductions and Transplantations / Documents prsents au Symposium sur l'amlioration des stocks dans de cadre de l'amnagement des pcheries

 

[Paul Boote]

I might forward this one to men I know who used to be great Wye and Severn salmon-fishers but who mostly ran out of fish to fish for, men who feel equally strongly about another egg-snaffling introduced predator close to some fishers' hearts...

 

[Chris Jones]

I might forward this one to men I know who used to be great Wye and Severn salmon-fishers but who mostly ran out of fish to fish for, men who feel equally strongly about another egg-snaffling introduced predator close to some fishers' hearts...

I'm sure that they would see the irony.

I wonder where it leaves the Trent? There's a fair head of zander in there yet there's still boat loads of barbel.

I've no particular love of Zander (I suspect that those that do will be along shortly), but I doubt that culling them will do much good. It's also more than a little rich to wish to control one non-indigenous in a river in an attempt to protect another non-indigenous species.

 

[Rhys Perry]

I might forward this one to men I know who used to be great Wye and Severn salmon-fishers but who mostly ran out of fish to fish for, men who feel equally strongly about another egg-snaffling introduced predator close to some fishers' hearts...

A problem that runs a lot deeper than egg snaffling introduced predators I feel. Much the same for zander, otter and cormorant problems as regards course fish, which pale in comparison to what has happened to salmon and sea trout. Now if barbel/carp stocks were as low as these, now there would uproar!

 

[Paul Boote]

Anything or anybody but squeaky-clean us...

 

[Neil Smart]

We all know about the decline of Barbel over the years and a lot of the problems have been put down to the increase in the number of Otters and Cormorants the problems that they are causing to fish stocks .
Over the years that I have fished for Barbel mainly on the W/Avon I would catch the odd Barbel weighing on average of about 1lb or more in weight .
I don’t know of any one’s else experiences when it comes to catching smaller Barbel of this size and for what ever reason they to seemed to of declined in numbers or completely vanished ?

So it begs the question who or what is the reason for there decline ?
Also I have noticed that where I fish on the W/Avon the numbers of small Chub and roach have declined as well . Where they were once common
Years ago when I have fished this particular stretch . It was common to catch loads chub of any given size and now all you catch is the odd fish up to 3 to 5lb and smaller Chub are not so common as they once were .

We all know what impact Otters have had since being reintroduced with out any thought they would have on the fish stocks .
We all know about the problem that Cormorants have caused since moving inland away from there natural environment and there have been calls for culling of both Otters and Cormorants .

Nobody ever seems to mention another predator that was introduced illegally many years ago in to our rivers and waterways and is not a native species to UK waters and evidence suggests that since there introduction and rapid spread they have had a big in pact on the native fish stocks .
The illegally stocked predator that I am talking about are Zander

So is it time we considered that any Zander caught should not be returned to the water and should be culled . After all it is legal to cull any Zander caught .
I know this will probably up set a few people to dare make a such a suggestion .
Out of all the three main predators Otters , Cormorants and Zander .
The only one that can be culled legally is the Zander
If Zander are munching there way through smaller Barbel and the result is diminishing numbers of smaller fish that will grow in to larger fish . Then don’t it make sense to start culling Zander .

Documents presented at the Symposium on Stock Enhancement in the Management of Freshwater Fisheries. Volume 2: Introductions and Transplantations / Documents prsents au Symposium sur l'amlioration des stocks dans de cadre de l'amnagement des pcheries

Hi Joe
I believe by singling out Zander because they are the only species that are not protected in an attempt to increase Barbel numbers for our pleasure is probably not great PR.
Some still talk of how match anglers used to throw Pike up the bank, Noooooooooo

 

[Paul Boote]

Just two weeks into the Close Season, some of our number were forced to adopt extreme measures...

The Weekend Dream adds Extreme Measure on Vimeo

 

[Robert Beal]

Baliff on stretch of trent I fish told me a year ago that anyone catching a zander should dispatch it and on no account return it to the water and even said the EA had told him that , I have only caught one zander by accident on of all things maggot feeder unfortunately it slipped from my grasp as I went to dispatch it , there was a big uproar when they were released in the fens but they seem to have balanced out

 

[Nick Tuckey]

I seem to remember/think that there was a cull policy on Zander in the 60s or early 70s which was endorsed and encouraged by water authorities but I dont think it had much impact.

 

[Joe Fletcher]

Hi Joe
I believe by singling out Zander because they are the only species that are not protected in an attempt to increase Barbel numbers for our pleasure is probably not great PR.
Some still talk of how match anglers used to throw Pike up the bank, Noooooooooo

Neil you like me have fished the W/Avon of many years and you like me have seen a dramatic decline in numbers of Roach , Chub etc so its not just an attempt to increase Barbel numbers its all the other fish as well .
As for PR I dont think the general public would be that bothered ,

 

[Steven Palmer]

Are non UK nationals who take fish from our rivers classed as a non native predatory species which if caught ............ ��

He says, tongue firmly in cheek ��

That said I fish the Trent (middle) specifically for Zander and Barbel and I would say the Barbel are far more plentiful and easier to catch!

Cheers,

Steven

 

[Paul Thomas]

I've long fished for Zander and enjoyed every one caught....but as you say, they should be culled to protect our native silver fish stocks and as such I will be killing all Zander caught from now on....


















































































....I favour drowning as the most humane method of despatch - simply hold them under water for a few minutes or so after capture and that should do it?


Paul

 

[Pete Marshall]

Very good eating the Zander (I always make a point of telling those who eat everything they catch this). I can give recipes if any one wants them. A non native. illegally introduced in most places and never should have been put into any UK rivers in the first place. Perfectly legal to take them if you desire, but unfortunately I would say given the numbers around in the Severn these days, difficult to get rid of now. On the odd occasions when I catch one when fishing for for sporting species they always come home for the pot. Putting them back remains technically illegal but the EA long ago gave up enforcing this as some anglers just refused, notably some of the same anglers now complaining about otters...

Had anglers followed the rules back in the eighties when these horrible things first started showing they could have been dealt with (or even better not stuck them in rivers in the first place) and the perch and silver fish levels would have been better. Pike seem to thrive on eating them though.

They make even the bream an exciting fish to catch.....

 

[Steve Williams]

And while we are on the 'cull non native species that eat small fish or fish eggs', lets start knocking any Barbel that we catch from the Severn, WAvon or Teme, on the head and chucking them up the bank.....

Its well documented that Barbel are predatory at certain times.....and they are certainly not native to those rivers mentioned....

Oh, and I'm sure I could find a receipt or two for you Pete....

Steve

 

[Graham Hunt]

So many of the photos of large zander in the press appear underwhelming but that one is absolutely phenomenal. Superb fish and a welcome addition to our waterways in my humble opinion.

I just can't understand the mentality of some coarse anglers who revere our whiskery friends and advocate spending hours making sure they swim off strongly but are quite happy to throw another species up the bank.

 

[Paul Boote]

And while we are on the 'cull non native species that eat small fish or fish eggs', lets start knocking any Barbel that we catch from the Severn, WAvon or Teme, on the head and chucking them up the bank.....

Odd how some folk on the Teme treat the indigenous residents - see Tom Rigby's posting about £50 buckets of garden fertilizer in Ludlow in a thread about the other, far older, side of the Teme - Struggling salmon in Teme - Fly Fishing Forums

 

[Pete Marshall]

I just can't understand the mentality of some coarse anglers who revere our whiskery friends and advocate spending hours making sure they swim off strongly but are quite happy to throw another species up the bank.

Name some names..never heard of any such people myself, but always interested in watching for the latest trends in madness amongst anglers.:confused:

I find the people happy to stick hooks into animals and drag them out of the water repeatedly, but seemingly opposed to occasionally eating any of their catch even when it's a species in abundance or stocked for just that purpose.

Those who make "catch and release" into some religious belief system rather than a straightforward conservation measure.

In the case of zander, there are millions of 'em, they make good eating so eat them if you want. In the case of barbel, there aren't that many of them and perhaps only just about a sustainable population and they are rubbish to eat, so put 'em back.

Throwing anything you can eat "up the bank" would be wasting food and I was brought up not to do this.

 

[Graham Hunt]

Good job barbel make rubbish eating or you'd be most welcome on here

 

[David Gauntlett]

And while we are on the 'cull non native species that eat small fish or fish eggs', lets start knocking any Barbel that we catch from the Severn, WAvon or Teme, on the head and chucking them up the bank.....

Its well documented that Barbel are predatory at certain times.....and they are certainly not native to those rivers mentioned....

Oh, and I'm sure I could find a receipt or two for you Pete....


Steve

That's unkind Steve....especially if roe on toast was one of the recipes you had in mind

As said, there was a massive hue and cry when zander were first introduced into the Great Ouse relief channel in 1963, by a very misguided water authority, and there certainly was a tail off in numbers of smaller silver fish caught by match fishermen for a number of years thereafter, until a balance was struck. It is still claimed by some that this balance never was achieved, and certain waters have never been the same since. Whatever, it was wrong....a stupid, irresponsible and now illegal act to introduce an alien species into British waters in a way/place guaranteed to result in the spread of that species. Many will argue that it is no worse than illegal movements of native British fish to rivers/waters where they are not indigenous. Not true, in my opinion, but arguable.

However....I would have thought that common sense should be aplied here.
That was then, and now is now....it was wrong, but what is done is done. Whole generations of anglers have grown up fishing for zander, and loving the sport they offer. It would be utterly impossible to eradicate them, so.... as in the otter issue, love them or loath them, they are something we have to learn to live with. (Not sure who wrote that last bit....wasn't me, honest )

Cormorants.....now THAT is another issue altogether

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Adrian Williams]

And while we are on the 'cull non native species that eat small fish or fish eggs', lets start knocking any Barbel that we catch from the Severn, WAvon or Teme, on the head and chucking them up the bank.....

Its well documented that Barbel are predatory at certain times.....and they are certainly not native to those rivers mentioned....

Oh, and I'm sure I could find a receipt or two for you Pete....

Steve

I hate to tell you this Steve but the last time that fish was caught it died.

It was however very tasty cooked in foil with lemon herbs and butter on the last weekend of the season.

Waste not want not is my motto.