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cormorants

Mark Thompson

Senior Member & Supporter
Watched some cormorants feeding recently in Cardiff bay.
Every 4th or 5th dive they came up with small fish about 3"-4" long.

My question is has anyone actually witnessed a cormorant taking a much larger fish ?

Are they really as much of a problem as we are led to believe ???
 
The taking of the 3" and 4" fish IS the problem.

And yes, I have seen a comorant with a pike of about 2lb.
 
My question is has anyone actually witnessed a cormorant taking a much larger fish ?

Yes, a bream at around 2lb + that was stocked only weeks earlier.

Are they really as much of a problem as we are led to believe ???

Oh yes, I can show you a stillwater that is massively affected by cormorants. However the effects often aren't that noticeable except in the longer term.

I've often wondered if cormorants haven't been massively influential in the current stocks on some of our rivers. I've seen changes over the years on the Swale that could certainly be, at least in part, down to cormorant predation. I also suspect that the current boom in barbel on the Trent, accompanied by a seeming decline in the smaller species (roach, dace etc), may have cormorants as a contributary cause.
 
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Good pictures Michael. The pike was eaten too! The pictures were in the Daily Express a couple of years ago
 
I also suspect that the current boom in barbel on the Trent, accompanied by a seeming decline in the smaller species (roach, dace etc), may have cormorants as a contributary cause.

Good point there Chris. Fished the tidal a couple of weeks back & early morning a flock of at least 60-70 birds came down. They usually spook quite easily but this lot was very bold seemingly unperturbed by my presence & clapping. Confidence in numbers...
 
Okay,okay so they eat a few fish up to 2lb.
Is it known how much they need to eat a day,,

Seriously though, I (perhaps like many others) often see them flying along or over where I fish but never seen them diving in or feeding and was therefore a little reluctant to jump on the anti bandwagon.
I know serious cormorant predation leading to" dwindling stocks " is often mentioned on here but I assumed this could be supposition, like a lot of things.
I am sure there must be some scientific reseach carried out on the effect they have.
Fantastic photos.
 
Watched some cormorants feeding recently in Cardiff bay.
Every 4th or 5th dive they came up with small fish about 3"-4" long.

My question is has anyone actually witnessed a cormorant taking a much larger fish ?

Are they really as much of a problem as we are led to believe ???

Good grief............What planet have you been on for the last ten years?
 
Dear Adrian,
Have you actually seen cormorants take from your river ?
I have not so, I wondered if anyone/many actually had.:p
 
Yes Mark, chiefly on the Severn and the Trent. A colony of cormorants moved in to Ironbridge about 6 or 7 years ago, at the time the winter league matches were usually won with around 30 to 40lb of silver fish and there were plenty of back up weights around the same ball park. Within weeks the catch were noticeably smaller and within a couple of years they had reduced to the point where even the best bloke on the best peg would struggle for a bite. Needless to say attendances at the matches dropped off and eventually were cancelled, a short time later the club gave up the lease.
Ironically at around the same time the cormorants disappeared, probably because there was nothing left to eat, only to show up 10 miles away, as the cormorant flies, at Shrewsbury, the next town upstream. And the same cycle has started again.
As for watching them feed well yes, many times in fact, they will swim along with most of their body submerged then dive, only to appear up to a couple of hundred yards away and swallow their prey, those who study this sort of thing reckon a full grown adult bird will eat up to a Kilo of fish a day, it doesn't take a genius to work out that is a hell of allot of fish over a winter.
But they don't just eat fish, I have also seen them systematically remove and eat every duckling from a nest as they hatched, no more than 20 feet from where I was sitting on a carp lake and despite me peppering it with boilies from my catapult it kept coming back every time the mother left the nest and just stretched in and grabbed another one.
Having said all that you cant blame the birds, all they are doing is feeding themselves, if you want someone to blame look towards Brussels and the faceless bureaucrats who are responsible for the common fisheries policy which has resulted in huge factory ships being allowed into coastal waters to hoover up all the fish these birds would normally have fed on to make fishmeal for fertiliser and food for the farmed fish trade.
 
Good worked example there Adrian & balanced point of view. I used to work with the EA & such examples are to be seen all over UK & Europe - even to extent of mass exterminations & in a small amount of time niches opened are refilled.
 
I fish a midlands resevoir and packs of these birds swimming in a line decimated the place. It was really weird at first in the shallower end of the water my attention was drawn to the area by what I thought was a wave witha foamy crest. It was the fish hurling themselves out of the water trying to save themselves, it was only then that I saw the line of Comorants behind them. There were over 50 Cormorants at a time almost syncronised swimming, working very very effectively together. You could see them up end and swallow fish, any fish too large to swallow was discarded. The place is surrounded by bird watchers so you have no chance of any action. Also on my local Teme they will drop in on one area that is a little deeper than the rest and murder the shoal, we used to have a fantastic Grayling spot with fish touching 2lbs, now not a bite.I have watched the Cormorants performing in the Mediteranean whilst snorkelling, They can stay under water quite a while, and they do catch and swallow their prey under water I have seen it myself.As Ade says they are only doing what comes naturally, they are the modern "Sea Gull" brought in land for food, but surely it is within the wit of man to sort this out. The Angling Trust have liaised with the shooting fraternity and if you have a Cormorant poroblem they will apply for the necessary licence and the appropriate marksmen, a win win situation. They also have www.cormorantwatch.org where you can report sightings of Cormorants and place an X on the map where you have seen them.The Angling Trust are doing their bit, have we as anglers done our bit and joined the Angling Trust. Not as many as we need, we need a voice and this is probably our last chance because if this doesn't work no one will bother again. By the way you can always spot a tree where the Cormorants rest, it is dead, their droppings kill it.
Robbopike in a previous life
 
You can only "say it as you see it" Mark. We're probably just unlucky around here, and you may have got away with it. But its like Buzzards I never saw one until about 15 years ago, now they are everywhere. I saw my first Cormorant Daventry resevoir 1983, it took a paternostered sprat, it came off in the air thank goodness( I made a diary entry). I didn't see another one for 12 years, now there isn't a day you don't see them at least fly overhead.
Robbopike in a previous life
 
but surely it is within the wit of man to sort this out.

Stop digging your way into more trouble I say.... and leave all sort itself out in its own time - as it always does naturally.

We caused the problem in the first place in my reckoning with over-stocked commercial fisheries everywhere and such-like.

Increasing the supply of 'food' leads to rise of predators (eg epidemic of greenfly -> and epidemic of ladybirds shortly after)... but as soon as the number of predators can no longer be sustained by falling food stocks then so do their numbers fall...and numbers of food items naturally increase... leading to a rise in predation... and the cycle goes on, on a dampened sort of sine wave with the occasional blip to reset a high point on that wave.

Other analogies might include commercial trawling - while easy pickings then more trawling done andover-fishing results - but that then results in lower catches and trawling becomes unviable for more and more boats and the numbers of boats decline dramatically... and thus the fish breed and as the cartch rate has dropped their is a large increase in fish stocks and slowly more trawlers go back to sea....

But*interfering* is *NEVER* going to make things better....

And remember the 'perch' disease of the 70's when all the perch disappeared off the face of the earth? So where did all the one's we're catching now come from???

And the magpie explosion of the 80's when every other species of bird seemed to disappear? And the 'One for sorrow, two for joy', rhymn didn't go far enough.... and the angler's good luck thing of saying 'Good morning, Mr Magpie' to every one you saw en route to your fishing place resulted in being hoarse and having a sore throat all day... but you had to do it even then because if you don't do it you don't catch...

Nature loves teasing us!!
 
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You can only "say it as you see it" Mark. We're probably just unlucky around here, and you may have got away with it. But its like Buzzards I never saw one until about 15 years ago, now they are everywhere. I saw my first Cormorant Daventry resevoir 1983, it took a paternostered sprat, it came off in the air thank goodness( I made a diary entry). I didn't see another one for 12 years, now there isn't a day you don't see them at least fly overhead.
Robbopike in a previous life

I've seen TWO cormorant's in my life - and one of those was in the harbour in Weymouth...
 
Stephen you come from Wolverhampton and you've only seen 2 Cormorants? You cannot know what you are looking for, you cannot miss them in the sky if you don't see them on the water. I'm outa here. Good night everyone, don't forget to switch the light off!
 
Watched some cormorants feeding recently in Cardiff bay.
Every 4th or 5th dive they came up with small fish about 3"-4" long.

My question is has anyone actually witnessed a cormorant taking a much larger fish ?

Are they really as much of a problem as we are led to believe ???
The problem is that they take fishes of that size in quantity and all fishes are all small at some time in their lives.

Animals that prey on mature fish are seen as a serious problem by anglers as we try and catch these; but in the great scheme of things animals that take the mature of a species don't threaten that species as much as animals that take very large numbers of immature fish that haven't had a chance to breed replacements. Cormorants are along many rivers in much larger numbers than the river stocks can tolerate. The loss of fish at sea and the increase in inland stocked ponds may be the reason for this, but whatever the reason they are a serious problem on some rivers and have the potential to become a greater problem if sensible controls are not put in place.

At present levels cormorants on the Severn threaten not only the silver fish, but also Barbel, trout as well as other birds such as the Kingfisher. They are also being sighted along the Teme and other Severn tributaries, With the Grayling population of the Teme showing a huge recovery during the last few years along with continued successful spawning by all the other species as well as the large numbers of kingfishers, dippers etc.) ), for this to be threatened by the Cormerant would be a tragady for Englands greatest river (in my humble opinion).

No sensible person is calling for the birds to be wiped out but rather that the licensing procedure for the legal control of these bird to be liberalised and for clubs and other riparian owners to receive assistance in controlling the spread.

The AT's link up with the BSSAC is a great idea and should help clubs both get licenses and have responsible and knowledgeable shooters carry out controls. Best and most practical thing the AT have done and I hope clubs take up the offer of help and assitance from shooters.

The issue of cormorant control on the Severn will be one of the issues for discussion at the SRT meeting for anglers on the Severn which has already been advertised elsewhere. We are hoping that representatives of Natural England (who issue the licenses) as well as the AT, the RSPB and all the angling clubs with water on the Severn will be at this meeting. Hopefully common ground can be found.
 
You need to spend some time on the Teme and Severn between November and March. Oh, and look up :rolleyes:.

Fish the Severn at Bridgenorth, Bewdley and at Shrewsbury... not seen on there at all.

One on one of our clubs pools and that one at Weymouth.

Got a couple of terns on one of our pools that seemed to be doing better business than the cormorant, too! :)
 
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