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Chris Packham

Mike Hodgkiss said:
I find Chris Packham irritating as a TV presenter [ give me Michaela Strachen any day ] , however he is brave enough to talk about his mental ill health and break the taboo , that act alone will help many thousands of people who suffer in silence and he should be applauded for that .If you are on Facebook have a look at the ''Angling in Mind '' page a very laudable initiative to reach out to anglers who suffer from mental ill health
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Yeah he isn't my favourite presenter, he comes across as a bit awkward and intense. But I remember the Really Wild Show as a kid with CP, Terry Nutkins (terrible barnet) and the lovely Michaela Strachan being excellent.

ps - I didn't know until recently that Terry Nutkins lost his two fingers because he was savaged by one of Gavin Maxwells otters!
 
It is not a straightforward topic and there are a great many grey areas in what is seen as sport, hunting for the table, field sports and conservation etc. but I have never seen Chris Packham as anything other than anti country sports. And angling is a country sport.

I would agree that there is much greyness in this - but the use of sport is in this context is important. I understand why people hunt for food with a gun and would not class that as sport, I get why certain creatures are culled but that is not sport, I myself shoot rats and rabbits on my property but not for sport ie enjoyment/competition or a game. So my take is that angling - by this I mean coarse fishing - is not a country sport, as there is now no intention to ever kill the species; game fishing, especially salmon, has also changed in this matter but is probably still defined as a country sport. The country sport of shooting, as I understand it, always has an intention to kill its prey, otherwise why not use clays? Some people enjoy this, which I have no grouse (no pun intended) with, until it impacts on the environment, such as moorland burning, the introduction of artificial number of birds, and other species as noted above. So for one, I would not wish coarse angling to be associated with 'country sports 'as they have killing of the prey as its main outcome and we do not. So Alex, angling is not a country sport although I get why the some sections of shooting fraternity would like it to be.
 
Paul Dowgill said:
It is not a straightforward topic and there are a great many grey areas in what is seen as sport, hunting for the table, field sports and conservation etc. but I have never seen Chris Packham as anything other than anti country sports. And angling is a country sport.

I would agree that there is much greyness in this - but the use of sport is in this context is important. I understand why people hunt for food with a gun and would not class that as sport, I get why certain creatures are culled but that is not sport, I myself shoot rats and rabbits on my property but not for sport ie enjoyment/competition or a game. So my take is that angling - by this I mean coarse fishing - is not a country sport, as there is now no intention to ever kill the species; game fishing, especially salmon, has also changed in this matter but is probably still defined as a country sport. The country sport of shooting, as I understand it, always has an intention to kill its prey, otherwise why not use clays? Some people enjoy this, which I have no grouse (no pun intended) with, until it impacts on the environment, such as moorland burning, the introduction of artificial number of birds, and other species as noted above. So for one, I would not wish coarse angling to be associated with 'country sports 'as they have killing of the prey as its main outcome and we do not. So Alex, angling is not a country sport although I get why the some sections of shooting fraternity would like it to be.
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An interesting post Paul and some fair points to consider, and although I don't really agree with your opinions it doesn't make them less valid.

I agree with your points on coarse angling. Game angling, if the catch is killed, and sea angling, if the catch is killed would, I think, be classed as country sports. Nobody pays the costs of game fishing simply to put food on the table, it's cheap enough to buy in the supermarket, ditto with sea angling. This is fishing for sport and although the main intent might not be to kill the quarry, if the quarry is indeed killed for the table where is the difference to game shooting? I think you are actually dividing organised driven game shooting with rough shooting where a few birds are taken for the pot. But that is still shooting for sport whatever you wish to categorise it as yourself. The price of a brace of pheasants from the local butcher is less than a box of cartridges so the "shooting for the pot" hunter is shooting for sport, no other reason.

The impact on the environment needs to be looked at from both angles. I don't claim to be an expert on this but I do know that properly managed shoots are very beneficial to native wildlife in terms of habitat retention and management and in forms of more obscure things like the survival rates of different types of butterfly's. I have never heard of surplus numbers of pheasants being a problem, apart for a few local residents near our shoot complaining that they were causing some damage on the allotments. But in that respect pheasants cannot even begin to compare to pigeons when it comes to crop damage. Moorland burning is an interesting one. I grew up on a hill farm in Pembrokeshire and burning the moors was carried out to allow young heather to come through and control the height of the heather as it can become quite tall and difficult to graze sheep, cattle and hill ponies on. This was nothing to do with grouse shooting as there weren't any there. I don't actually know if this practise is still carried out though.

As a member of both the shooting and angling fraternity I have no interest in whether angling sees itself as country sport or not. It is not the opinion of the shooters or indeed the anglers that actually matters. What is clear is that people who are against shooting, on the whole, have a problem with the participants, not the creatures that get shot. They can't understand why some people enjoy shooting but can totally understand angling even if, as in the case of game and sea angling, the outcome for the quarry is the same. Many people do only shoot clays which I suppose could be seen as the shooting equivalent of coarse angling. And game/sea angling would ultimately be no different to shooting if the quarry is killed.
 
I think that anglers trying to convince themselves that angling is not a country sport are only kidding themselves. Whether we like it or not, the most vociferous antis consider coarse angling to be a "blood sport". Whether or not we actually intend to kill anything is largely immaterial to them. We may be marginally less unacceptable to them than shooting, and shooting is slightly less unacceptable to them than fox hunting. However, their perception is that animals suffer to an extent in each. In their eyes, there's no valid excuse for an animal to suffer at all if it's for human enjoyment. A real rabid anti isn't interested in whether we never intend to kill a fish, use unhooking mats, apply antiseptic, use barbless hooks and put them all back. All they see is us inflicting unnecessary "pain" on an animal. They don't really care that we can be the most interested guardians of our waterways, they'd prefer it if we didn't exist. Outside of the antis, I'm not convinced that the bulk of the populace gives a great deal of thought to shooting or fishing. They certainly did with fox hunting. However, that was turned into some kind of class war and vote winning topic by those that chose to take it that way.

Those arguing that shooting is, or is not sport. are basing their view on a modern definition of the word which, for most, tends to require a bit more physical activity than either angling or shooting needs beyond merely getting to a place to stand/sit to do it. The reality is that fishing and shooting were called sports long before the likes of cricket, football and athletics ever were. There's a reason why the Olympics are referred to as Games.
 
Chris i think definitions are really interesting in our case. In my first five years of angling I never saw the country - it all took place in urban Leeds be it the local canal or pond ( the Aire was not really fishable in the 60's), so was it any different to my mates who played golf on the municipal course? Again we are sometimes classed as field sports, I suppose because we are outdoors but so is rugby and it is played on a field! Where does climbing/potholing fit - they both take place in the open countryside as now does a lot of cycling.? Is the defining point the involvement of living creatures - but then ornithology springs to mind.

But the big question is are we even a sport (i known off track from Chris Packham!)? Perhaps certain aspects are, such as match fishing, but I never see myself as participating in a sport, country or otherwise, when fishing - it is not a game or competitive, it does not involve any real physical activity other than walking and carrying gear (a bit like shopping); there are rules and it is for enjoyment but there for knitting - I realise we are not in the Olympics but shooting and climbing are, plus cross country skiing with a rifle - a double whammy. For me it is more of a pastime or hobby...possibly bordering on an obsession at times. Does it help us being classed as a sport?

I am not sure that shooting and fishing were called sports before cricket - I think back in time both were a type of hunting - is that a sport? At the end of the day it is all irrelevant until it comes to money and influence i.e. politics. As you say real anti's see us as part of the 'blood sport' fraternity, which we are in their definition, but my money is that most anglers would not align themselves with shooting and probably see themselves as more conservation oriented, whether they are is a different matter.
 
Chris Jones said:
In their eyes, there's no valid excuse for an animal to suffer at all if it's for human enjoyment.
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This is the long and short of it, and in all honesty they're probably right.
The downside to that is, unless humans do find enjoyment in nature, however cruel that may be, most just won't give a toss and it'll be destroyed.
It's a real moral tug of war for me, I love fishing, but I can't ultimately justify it. No desire to shoot an animal for fun, just don't get it, can see the similarities to some extent, but I don't set out to kill fish.
There are psychos who shoot, happy to kill just about anything, just as there are anglers who couldn't give a toss if fish went back dead. I know for sure a certain big carp fishery owner who likes to kill any bird on his water, because they like anglers bait, he certainly ain't no friend of nature.
But hey, plenty of psycho's who've never seen the countryside.
 
I can remember cp on BBC room 101 a few years back. One of his recommendations at the time was aimed at Chris Moyles of BBC radio 1.I may be paraphrasing here but his comment about moyles was along the lines of 'fat opinionated northern b'stard'
I wonder how that body shaming bulling would go down with the pc crowd today?
 
Richard Gardiner-Smith said:
I wish I could start on Robson Green! I’m generally a very peaceful man but there’s something about him on screen that has me wishing violence on him 😂
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I couldn't agree more
For me it's of all the people in the world they could choose to send to some of the best fishing locations money can buy and they pick that tool??
No matter how much the fishing ticks the box - e.g Muskie in Canada - I just can't watch it, and I must be pretty tolerant as I watch some sh**e if there is fishing involved.
A good dose of Wilson normally re-sets the balance, although I was mesmerized last night by Hadrian Whittle catching them on the float - maestro.
 
Richard Gardiner-Smith said:
I wish I could start on Robson Green! I’m generally a very peaceful man but there’s something about him on screen that has me wishing violence on him 😂
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But at least he knows how to handle a rod, and is a competent angler. He has a background of fishing in his native North East, so imo a lot better than most they called have chosen. This SIR...Botham debacle where celebrities have no interests in fishing ponce around and see it as just another pay day.
Love Beefy as a cricketer, and Headingly '82 ? will always be perhaps the best sporting moment I have witnessed.
 
Paul Richardson said:
I couldn't agree more
For me it's of all the people in the world they could choose to send to some of the best fishing locations money can buy and they pick that tool??
No matter how much the fishing ticks the box - e.g Muskie in Canada - I just can't watch it, and I must be pretty tolerant as I watch some sh**e if there is fishing involved.
A good dose of Wilson normally re-sets the balance, although I was mesmerized last night by Hadrian Whittle catching them on the float - maestro.
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I watched one episode of a fishing program he did that was aired a good few years back. Switched off after 10 mins, it was painfully bad. I think it was the fact his accent changed 3-4 times that really did it for me.
 
Chris Guy said:
Those photos of the Ospreys at Rutland are completely set-up. Basically you can book a slot i someone's large back garden that has a shallow pond, where they put in a few rainbows. You sit at one end with your camera and wait for the set dinner time.
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I can imagine Chris. Not my cup of tea, but I suppose a harmless way for some people to take pics they ordinarily wouldn't get the chance to.

Once went on a boat trip off the Isle of Mull to spot Sea Eagles. I hadn’t bother to do much research before booking, but was disappointed to find over a dozen people on a fairly small boat. Sailed into a sea loch and the skipper tossed a mackerel overboard and right on cue a large WTE appeared as if trained to the whistle. Hardly a wild experience!
 
Joe Winstanley said:
I watched one episode of a fishing program he did that was aired a good few years back. Switched off after 10 mins, it was painfully bad. I think it was the fact his accent changed 3-4 times that really did it for me.
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He's a proper luvvy and so far up his own harris it's unreal. But who's his target audience- menopausal women who watched ' Soldier Soldier' 30 years ago? At least the other bloke( Jerome) redeemed himself in Game of Thrones.
Shame big Jack is no longer with us, now there's a man who did the region proud as a fishing presenter - he set the bar for Steady Wilson.
 
Neil Smart said:
Hence the ?, but I do remember coming home from work in the final session expecting the worse.....had the Tuesday off and was so glad I did.
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I was too young to appreciate it, but I've watched various highlights of the 81 Ashes over the years. The following test at Old Trafford was pretty good also, Beefy making a ton in his 2nd innings after getting a golden duck in the 1st. Paul Allott's 52 no on his test debut was pretty awesome as well, his highest first class score at the time.
 
Neil Smart said:
But at least he knows how to handle a rod, and is a competent angler. He has a background of fishing in his native North East, so imo a lot better than most they called have chosen. This SIR...Botham debacle where celebrities have no interests in fishing ponce around and see it as just another pay day.
Love Beefy as a cricketer, and Headingly '82 ? will always be perhaps the best sporting moment I have witnessed.
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Are you talking about the Botham on The Fly series which aired over 15 years ago? I saw the one episode with Mike Atherton, who if I recall rightly seemed a little surprised by the cameras - I think he turned up thinking he was just going fishing. Didn't seem very happy..
 
Joe Winstanley said:
I was too young to appreciate it, but I've watched various highlights of the 81 Ashes over the years. The following test at Old Trafford was pretty good also, Beefy making a ton in his 2nd innings after getting a golden duck in the 1st. Paul Allott's 52 no on his test debut was pretty awesome as well, his highest first class score at the time.
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And don't forget Bob Willis - incredible bowling
 
Dave Quinn said:
Having suffered from mental health problems most of my life I wish society had been more understanding when I was growing up. There is a rush of people trying to use it for their own benefit, it was always going to happen and I know that the psychotherapy and psychology communities are not very happy about it, but the benefits to individuals who are suffering, previously in silence and misunderstood and to society as awhile greatly outweigh that

Chris Packham is a great role model for young people with Aspergers Syndrome, a little understood but potentially very limiting condition. He does great mental health awareness work.

My kids both love him, it was very helpful when the 9 year olds best friend was diagnosed with autism to be able to explain it to him using CP as an example of someone who had it and who was “normal”

the earlier that mental health issues are spotted in life the easier it is to be able to manage them so they don’t become life-threatening later. People like CP talking about it helps remove stigmas and encourages people to seek help for them or their children/young adults
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Well said Dave.
 
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