• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

boilies, pellets and barbel

David Hall

David Hall

Senior Member
something fishy related,
do you think that boilies are better for a barbel's digestion system than pellets are?
if so, do you think that fresh boilies are best for a fish than shelf life ones,
i go back to the days when carp were reported with gut rot due to shelf life boilies.
 
IMO fresh boilies and paste all the way, i just think the fish will digest them quicker as they are more soluble. I saw some pictures last week of some pictures of pellets that had been kept in refrigerised water for a week and the pellets were still solid in the middle, food for thought when baiting with pellets in the colder month. I imagined a barbel over the past month that had fed on pellets as the the rivers were cooling to as low as 2C and below, and thought at what temperature does the fishes digestion system shut down and wake up??.
Some fish may have had pellets in there digestion for weeks, could the high oil content of a pellet actually damage the fish if the undigested pellet had remained in the gut for a given amount of time??

Jon
 
Generally speaking pellets will break down quicker than boilies, it's all down to the make up of the bait you are using. As regards fish digestion, the same would be true. the protein levels would be higher in boilies and pastes. some readymade boilies and pastes also use vast quantities of preservatives which would also have to be factored in, therefore, boilies and pastes will "generally" take longer to digest.

The problem with pellets of course, as i have said a number of times before, is the (mis)use of them. I'm sure that if the cost of pellet matched that of boilies, people would think twice before hoying a couple of kilos in!
 
Out of interest how many anglers use pellets in the winter, and how well do they do with them?
 
I used crab pellets the other day and banked one. One as hookbait and 4/5 crumbled up in pva. I didn't need to use anymore though as I know roughly where they hide out. However I generally switch between pellets, frozen boilies, meat or a ball of hair rigged maggots so as to alternate and keep things interesting.

Everything in moderation I suppose. Especially in winter.
 
i generally do fantastically well Chris, more so than in summer.
 
i just asked a simple question.
don't know what your on!
take a chill pill jon.
 
Chill pill - the chairman prescribes a diet of tackling misinformation. Good for stress I hear. You know what your about mate - its a common theme of your posts combined with the one liners!! Writing a detailed post - take notes & learn before always making derisive comparisons to carp techniques!
 
Are you selling chill pills on here Dave?..... Are they legal?.... and isn't selling them breaking BFW rules?
 
Jon Whelan said:
David, David, David...

You pull on the worst facets you naughty little devil you!! You ought to be the fishy equivalent/presenter of the Jeremy Kyle show. Outrageous for outrageous sakes. Corr blimey!

I can kill myself drinking too much water too by all accounts...

How about taking the best bits out of the pellets & make a special personal blend. The ability to make a HNV bait is very simple, making a HNV bait more attractive is a little more involved. Most people think that making boilies is a science & are more anxious about getting it wrong rather than giving it a go.

The bait business, like most business opportunities makes money out of peoples ignorance compounded by the demands of contemporary life sucking out ones free time. A bit of good marketing, blah, blah, blah.

I have invested a massive amount of time over the last year reading academic papers on fish nutrition backed up by a wholesome scientific education. Bait companies claims of HNV baits are true because it is so easy to achieve. But there is a big difference between a general HNV bait & something that is tailored for a particular type of fish & the time of year which it's fed. Then onto digestibility & ensuring that the nutritive profile on paper is not altered by its preparation & can be readily assimilated into the working needs of the species targeted. It is more the poor application of bait that is the culprit rather than that of the bait we buy.

Are we feeding the fish or are we just attracting the fish? Are we talking feeding fish in rivers or lakes? For rivers, they are relatively un-fished so bait will always be in addition to natural food. I doubt there will few examples of dependency.

One time I was back packing in the south of Spain. We came across a quarter acre fresh water lagoon not more that 50 meters from the sea fed by a small stream. This was gin clear & had a small population of carp. We had no tackle so utilised some nearby cane like branches, guy ropes from the tent, obtained probably 25lb fishing line & some (large) small sea hooks from a nearby fisherman who could not speak a word of English. These carp I believe had rarely, if ever seen a hook. Fishing for 2 hours a day for a week, taking a couple of fish per session, it was interesting to see how quickly these tame fish became aware & recognised certain baits as being hazardous. We had to change & swap baits after a couple of days & we were amazed how quickly they would spook on discovering baits present.

Getting back on topic - given that instance we actively teach fish to become aware of such hazards. Consequently, in certain times of the year fish will preferentially choose less risky food lowering any dependence on bait given that their population is in balance to naturally available food. Although they might like to eat sweet readily available man made provisions; however, the emerging invertebrates, etc, will always be their staple food.

Yes, some bait will have a deleterious effect on nutrition but so does a fatty diet for ourselves & the so called obesity crisis which is endemic of the developed world.

David, you need to qualify further what you say because your statement has no perspective nor sense of proportion - especially on the riverine environment.

For your information, most meals (used for pellets & boilies) are treated with preservatives post manufacture. Most meals have a moisture content of approx 10%; combine this level of moisture or slightly higher dependant on its storage – it’s a microbial feast time. So the use of preservatives is a must. For example, if you look on some of CC Moores Technical Specification Data pdf’s they specify the microbial counts on some of their products (for info it is zero) but point being their growth is inhibited by preservatives.
So Dave, for you to go on & make parallels with carp & gut rot surely this has parallels within using pellets or boilies utilised by you & me in all applications of their use. It is not the first time you have tried to be provocative but I will state that this “well-govern’d angler†is either fully in knowledge of the above facts or could well have the need to consume a more balanced diet because your backside is on form dear Sir Walton…
Click to expand...

Nice post Jon, now I'm developing a HNV bait, hows about pure fishmeal and eggs as a binder, paste rrp £8 p/kg boilies £10 p/kg and guess what, its fishy flavoured.:)
And yes its very HNV, its 70%+ protein.:rolleyes:

Chris, I have used pellets in the cold but only ever fed ground up oily pellets as a feeder bung and low oil carp pellets as a loose offering, then an oily pellet on the hook, Elips, halibut or crab and krill.
Catch rate is reasonable but I tend to select what could be deemed as favourable.;)
 
Dave and Chris keep it calm lads dont want anymore threads going downhill:rolleyes:
 
Jeff Edisbury said:
Generally speaking pellets will break down quicker than boilies, it's all down to the make up of the bait you are using. As regards fish digestion, the same would be true. the protein levels would be higher in boilies and pastes. some readymade boilies and pastes also use vast quantities of preservatives which would also have to be factored in, therefore, boilies and pastes will "generally" take longer to digest.

The problem with pellets of course, as i have said a number of times before, is the (mis)use of them. I'm sure that if the cost of pellet matched that of boilies, people would think twice before hoying a couple of kilos in!
Click to expand...


There are boillies.......... and then there are boillies ;)

All go under the same name, but very very different baits. ;) ;) ;) :cool:
 
Absolutely Ian,

That's pretty much it but there seems to be an idea from some on here that the higher the protein levels, the better the bait and this is a widespread idea but certainly not necessarily true. Again, generally speaking, all it does is lead to much wasted money and very few baits being eaten/fish caught. I've done it myself 20 or more years ago.
Specialist HNV baits, such as HINUVAL etc are usually used in very small amounts whilst fishing, and i'm talking probably hookbaits only here. The baiting up having been done in the warmer autumn months. The expense of a top quality HNV being highly prohibitive (to my pockets anyway) to the shovelling it in approach. As i said, this is unfortunately not the same with cheaper boilies (what used to be termed "**** baits") and pellet.

Regards,
Jeff
 
Jeff Edisbury said:
Absolutely Ian,

That's pretty much it but there seems to be an idea from some on here that the higher the protein levels, the better the bait and this is a widespread idea but certainly not necessarily true. Again, generally speaking, all it does is lead to much wasted money and very few baits being eaten/fish caught. I've done it myself 20 or more years ago.
Specialist HNV baits, such as HINUVAL etc are usually used in very small amounts whilst fishing, and i'm talking probably hookbaits only here. The baiting up having been done in the warmer autumn months. The expense of a top quality HNV being highly prohibitive (to my pockets anyway) to the shovelling it in approach. As i said, this is unfortunately not the same with cheaper boilies (what used to be termed "**** baits") and pellet.

Regards,
Jeff
Click to expand...


Hi Jeff,
You make some pretty sweeping statements there.
Whether HNV baits are better or not, is an individuals opinion probably based on the results obtained by using them, for a specific approach.
I use HNV baits for barbel fishing a lot - not exclusivley, but consider them ( mine) the best for what i use them for. I certainly don't regard their use as wasted money.

As far as the cost being prohibitive, again you couldn't be more wrong provided you buy in raw ingredients. Hi Nuval is commercialy produced, & packaged, which means overheads for the manufacturer/ wholesaler and the for the retailer, resulting in as you say and i agree in that instance prohibitive costs, but there is more than one way to skin a cat !! :D

My ingredients worked out at a cost of £8.12 per Kilo of dry ingredient, thats including VAT and delivery, cheaper than you can buy most boillies of the shelf.

I appreciate that you can buy bait cheaper than that, meat etc, and good baits they are too, but not for the purposes i use HNV for.
It all depends what you want from a bait, £8.12 is a reasonable cost to me for what i want, and approximatly 1/3 of the cost of purchasing a proprietry HNV mix such as HI Nuval..... in fact i can't think of anyone other than Nutrabaits who do one.

Regards
Ian.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top