Base Mix? One For Bait Buffs...

[John Cook]

Come on lads kiss and make up

 

[Graham Elliott]

Granty's arms giving Crooky a cuddle. Impossible.

But Kissing. thats ok.

Graham

 

[Ian Grant]

Ian, I am absolutely gobsmacked!!!

I didn't quote, I mentioned there was an article,

I forgot to mention this .... Are you at the bar in your hotel ? have you had 1 too many G&T's ?????

I didn't say you quoted ! - you said i quoted you !!
Here .....


Darren, Mr Grant has completely mis-quoted me, there was no mention by myself whatsoever of Nutrabaits, I didnt even know Dave Moore was involved with them. I also did not mention anything about anyone's bait having more available protein than anyone else's bait.............

Quite the opposite in fact, I did say that many contain a lot of unnecessary protein................but again that was speaking from memory of something I read ONCE, THREE WEEKS AGO.

Ian.

 

[Darren George]

All,

This thread seems to have deteriorated, which is a shame as it was interesting. I apologise for my part in that.

It may be a bit late now, but I have a couple of points to make regarding some subjects discussed earlier in the thread.

First, A really easy way to nail protein in your bait is to use LT94 fishmeal. Unless you wish to get all obsessive over protein, including LT94 (which also has other useful aspects other than protein) in your bait means you can pretty much forget about protein. That said, LT94 isn't the end of the protein story, if you decide to take things further.

Second, well, I've spent a fair bit of time thinking on this provocative, yet cryptic quote:

"Protein is for fish farmers and for fattening up your local [fish] for wiser anglers to catch"

Posted elsewhere by a bait man who is either a genius, a windup merchant, or as I particularly suspect, both of the above.

 

[Ian Grant]

All,

This thread seems to have deteriorated, which is a shame as it was interesting. I apologise for my part in that.

It may be a bit late now, but I have a couple of points to make regarding some subjects discussed earlier in the thread.

First, A really easy way to nail protein in your bait is to use LT94 fishmeal. Unless you wish to get all obsessive over protein, including LT94 (which also has other useful aspects other than protein) in your bait means you can pretty much forget about protein. That said, LT94 isn't the end of the protein story, if you decide to take things further.

Second, well, I've spent a fair bit of time thinking on this provocative, yet cryptic quote:

"Protein is for fish farmers and for fattening up your local [fish] for wiser anglers to catch"

Posted elsewhere by a bait man who is either a genius, a windup merchant, or as I particularly suspect, both of the above.

Ok Then Darren lets get it back on track

First, A really easy way to nail protein in your bait is to use LT94 fishmeal. Unless you wish to get all obsessive over protein, including LT94 (which also has other useful aspects other than protein) in your bait means you can pretty much forget about protein. That said, LT94 isn't the end of the protein story, if you decide to take things further.
I think i know what you mean by that, but explain a bit further please .

This quote....
"Protein is for fish farmers and for fattening up your local [fish] for wiser anglers to catch"

Well i'd agree with your opinion of him, and if it really was his opinion then he seems not to be really talking from a position of knowledge about protein.

Like many when he just says 'protein' i assume he means high protein, as to my knowledge at any rate, every single food ( natural ) source on the planet contains it, protein and the aminos that make them up are the building blocks of life, anything that is, or once was alive contains protein - as a whole food that is. It is possible though to seperate other food compounds from a food, and i'm talking mainly fat, and Carbohydrate, but there are others, but lets keep it simple !
So unless this guy is saying that he likes to fish with a lump of lard on his hook, then he's a bit of a twit !
Protein cannot fatten anything, protein contains zero fat - zilch.
On the other hand, fat contains zero protein, fat is fat - protein is protein.
However there must be fat present - or a particular type of it in an animals body by means of a regular intake of it in order for proteins or more correctly the aminos that make them up to be transported around the body via the bloodstream, the aminos attach themselves to the fat molecules, and if you like hitch a ride ! the complexities of that i don't understand, and again i'd be out of my depth if i tried to explain it, it's something to do with the aminos not being able to enter a cell structure on their own i think ( don't quote me on that ! )
I don't know how you'd ever put pure protein on a hook or hair rig, i don't even know what it looks like ! but without other compounds that make up the food item to bind it into the mass i guess it would just all fall apart.
I think you'd need the smallest hook ever invented, and a similar sized pair of tweezers together with a microscope, and hook it strand by strand, and as i even have trouble tying a size 20, i don't think i'll be trying it anytime soon ! Those boffins who do artificial insemination might be able to though !
What i'm getting at is that anything that is possible to use as a bait, will have a degree of protein contained within it's structure, only food types that have gone through a refining process will have the elavated levels of protein that are gernerally termed 'High'.
That's with the possible exception of that 'joke i made about Lard, i suppose it would be possible to put a piece of Lard on a hook, if the temperature was low enough, and i'm pretty sure the fish would eat it with enthusiasm as well, fat being also very desirable to a fish, being what it primarily utilises for energy, but has other uses within the body of the fish already mentioned.

If fat reserves are very low, protein will be used for this purpose quite adequately but as said must have a certain amount of lipid fat present in order to be metabolised, but as protein is not stored within the body of a fish, other than what has been assimilated into it's cell structures, will have no reserves to draw on, and again would have to ensure, a continuous supply of it for use as energy.

As far as being for 'wiser anglers' ( if we are talking high protein ) well thats tosh, High protein baits have to my mind a very specific purpose, or at any rate if they are being used to their full potential, something i've said so many times i couldn't count.
In general angling situations, other baits with a much lower ( natural levels ) protein content, are equally effective, and as i've also said in my opinion meat in it's various forms is one of the best.

So if we are talking sensible situations, it's just not possible to use a bait with no protein, or no fat, or carbohydrate for that matter, all foods have varying amounts of it, and all are able to be metabolised by a fish including
all proteins, which though according to their amino compound make up, vary in the benefit to the fish, and is true therefore that there will be some proteins that have 'available' within their make up essential aminos which will be of a greater value to a fish than others, saying that though all protein structures will have a value to greater or lesser degrees, and none will be useless to a fish.

Ian.

 

[Darren George]

On the first point, I don't wish to be rude to you Ian, but it wasnt really aimed at you. To expand would go against the principal under which I said it.

On second point, well, who knows what he really meant, but your interpretation is interesting as always.