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Barbel decline in the Upper Teme

No doubt IMO that the floods altered the fishing on all sections of the Teme including the lower. About a month ago I did a bit of a recce on a popular BAA section. Truth is the lower river is getting hammered and the section I went to has done big fish in the past .

Rumour had it that it is nearly empty.
well after baiting 4or 5 swims in areas I could spot fish I must have seen at least twenty barbel., including several in an area that previously wasn't a swim. No big fish but I did have a go and landed 1 hooked 2.

I left concluding that it was OK and on the up

cheers Paul
 
If I can add my "six penneth" showing my age I think there is one factor involved here that people haven't mentioned. During the great flood I think an awful lot of fish ( some rumours mention a field not too far from Eastham as an example) went swim about into fields some half a mile from the main river itself, never able to return because of the countours of the land. This river can fall as quickly as it rises and I think it is quite logical that a lot of fish died that way.I was part of a syndicate that had water near Tenbury, I now run this water myself, the record was 24 fish on opening day, 6 or 10 fish a day was the norm and to be honest I found it very boring. After the floods the one thing I noticed more than anything was that the river seemed "dead", before when Dace, Trout Grayling and Chub were forever rising, Barbel were flashing and splashes could be heard all around you there was nothing. Minnows didn't show up for 2 years.

I fish 3 stretches around Ludlow, plus occasionally the BAA. In the three usual haunts there are Otters, they run past you, swim past you and it is quite obvious they have been almost "pets" before they were released, they have no fear of man. In my opinion these have not gradually appeared because we have cleaned up the water, they have been dropped off within the last couple of years.

As soon as the summer anglers pack their tackle away we will have the Cormorants and Gooseanders on a more frequent basis, they are around now but their numbers increase as the banks get quieter.

There are Barbel around the upper Teme, some nice ones too but there are far more down the lower Teme where I also fish. There are baby Barbel in my stretch I have been feeding them and the other small Chub etc 3mm pellets all year to give them a start before winter comes along. The probably won't stay but it is for the good of the River.

Jim has fished my stretch and he would catch a lot of fish , 10 in a day if I remember correctly and that was after the flood but for whatever reason he and I know he is unlikely to do that today. I think 3 fish in an evening would be classed as a good session now, together with a couple of chub who seem to have fared better than the Barbel.

I think that with the flood, Otters Goosander etc it has been "The Perfect Storm" for the River Teme, but it is coming back quietly on its own. As Paul and others have pointed out it may well find its own level again. Regarding Salmon, as an aside, we get a wonderful run each year and they make quite a spectacle negotiating the weirs at Ludlow, so at least the River is clean for our visitors.
Robbopike in a previous life
 
John Robbins said:
I fish 3 stretches around Ludlow, plus occasionally the BAA. In the three usual haunts there are Otters, they run past you, swim past you and it is quite obvious they have been almost "pets" before they were released, they have no fear of man. In my opinion these have not gradually appeared because we have cleaned up the water, they have been dropped off within the last couple of years.
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What, have they got collars on? Who released these? Where did they get them from? Have they replaced the wild otters that have been on the Teme for years? When the mink hounds come through how do they react? Have you asked the local mink hounds pack runners what they think?
 
To be fair, I think otters have shed their fear of humans as they have learnt, they have no need to fear us, pretty much like urban foxes.
 
Of course they have collars on blue for boys pink for girls. They don't act like wild animals they chase their prey often ducks in front of you, they swim in your swim in the daylight, they run along YOUR side of the river, sometimes in front of your feet, they sit and watch you while you are fishing. All Otters look the same to me I suppose they will be territorial and push the natives out or be pushed out in due course. When the Mink hounds come through I should imagine they leg it, I don't need to discuss with any pack runners what I can see with my own eyes, but I have a funny feeling that I will see a few more Otters than them sitting still by the river than they will with a pack of barking hounds.
 
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Colin Gordon said:
To be fair, I think otters have shed their fear of humans as they have learnt, they have no need to fear us, pretty much like urban foxes.
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Absolutely. Actually I have never noticed Otters being that fearful of people (and I have seen a lot of otters in a lot of different places), however they are rather fearful of packs of hounds.

I've had otters surface right up to me when wading, give me a slightly quizzical look and then go on there way and this on the Ifon back in the eighties. I've come within 10 m's of so of family groups munching away on mussels up on the West Coast of Scotland only recently and I had a shotgun in my hands (not to shoot otters by the way).

I have also watched a female otter protecting its cubs from a male otter and from what I saw I don't think a tame otter in the wild would last five minutes, which is why the idiots who did release a few just released them to their deaths on the whole.
 
Colin Gordon said:
Neil, NEVER!!


Terry, I'm not trying to imply that I'm a great angler and everyone else on the river is inferior, because be sure of one thing, I ain't a great angler at all!

Obviously my point was poorly put across.
I do fully accept that the Teme currently has a reduced population of barbel and one that is likely to drop further. This IMO is due in the main to an ageing barbel population, yes some of them may have perished in the 2007 floods but I don't think that it was anymore than in any other flood, I think as a percentage of the rivers stock it'd be higher than on rivers with a more established population but a total collapse in numbers, I debate.
I reckon a heck of a lot of fish redistribution went on, but not loads of adult barbel swept downstream, I also don't think that many 3-5 year old barbel were swept away either.

Going back to the how good an angler I am, or not... Like I said we are ALL guilty of revisiting sites of former glories, I'd reckon it to be human nature to do so but if a new angler to tips up on a river, he arrives with no preconceived ideas as to where is good and bad. Though I will say if the river newbie engages his brain, unless he sees fish being hauled out of the busy swims, he'll do best steering well clear of them.

Basically my conclusion being: Yes the Teme's barbel stocks are falling, this though is due to a number of factors, yes we can simplify it and blame one of those factors; otter predation, flood impacts and like I said, the effects of sustained angling pressure; moreover on a declining head of fish making whatever that is in the river ever harder to catch.
But its a mixture of all these factors that is causing the decline and the accumulation of them that has made the decline so fast.
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I think the jury is out as to why the rapid decline so we can all debate into the cows come home as to the real reasons, but you are probably right in what you say that a combination of flood food predation and pressure.
But it would be good to get the EA's opinion I suppose, but I don't suppose they would care that much.
However if the river is so deprived of quality fish of course Otters and the such like will move / die, it is a dangerous game these environmentalist play in 'forcing' such a apex predator on such fragile system as the Teme. In the end no wins everyone loses, but of course we always knew that this would be the outcome.
 
On a more practical point, Teme anglers may be aware that the Barbel Society has part funding a research programme into barbel at one of the universities (can't remember which). This includes scale readings from angler caught barbel from a couple of rivers including the Teme. A small group of anglers have received training on scale removal and with riparian owners permission have removed scales throughout this season from a couple of locations in the middle Teme. One of the aims of this study is to establish growth patterns on the Teme and to look for any missing recruitment years.

The SRT also provided training for a group of anglers in order to establish fly life monitoring throughout the catchment, this was particularly successful in the Teme catchment and fly life (and hence water quality) is monitored at several locations. The results of this are reported back to anglers at the flylife conference. The first of these was early this year and is fully reported on the SRT web site with videos and downloadable presentations.

Presently the SRT is trying to gain funding for elctro fishing at certain locations on the Teme to establish an accurate picture of the stocks. Once again riparian owners / local angling clubs are involved in this.

All this costs time as well as money. Both in short supply. The Barbel Societies R&C fund gave towards some of the work on the Teme and is funding the research along with the EA. Flylife training was initially funded by a grant from the lottery fund. For most of the other work we will be applying to DeFRA and in some cases the EA. The time element is volunteers as it is people on the ground, doing the actual work that is required and this means volunteers from clubs and individuals. Donations are of course always welcome as are individuals and particular clubs becoming supporters. Details of which clubs on the Teme who presently support the work of the SRT are on the web site. Please note that the SRT is a charity doing practical work and not a political organisation. For lobbying and campaigning the AT and the SATT are the organisations to support.
 
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Ah yes, I think you're right, can't get my head round Bournemouth having a university:). Used to have a good art college, I suppose that's been taken over by the "university" these days.
I just thought Bournemouth may be some acronym that those "down with the kids" should understand:confused:
 
Obviously a hot bed of fisheries research these days.

Or maybe it was just handy.

.
 
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Or perhaps just somewhere where someone preparing for their PhD could be interested in Barbel?

Can't see it actually matters where the research is taking place myself , however if you have a contact in a university where PhD students are looking for a research proposition you could persuade one to take up some research Tony?

I am personally talking with several faculties at the University of Birmingham about incorporating research into rivers that may be of interest to coarse anglers...finding funds is always the problem, so any suggestions more than welcome.
The SRT can be contacted through our web site.
 
Of course it doesnt matter. Not up to speed on the best university for fishieries research these days Pete.
In my day it was always Sterling that was the seat of excellence though I do know Hull have done a lot of late and have a good reputation.
 
Research goes where the money goes. Most general research into fishery matters is funded by those interested in Salmon and Trout as that's where the cash is. Eels get people interested as well these days, but I am afraid most other freshwater fish excite little in the way of large cash. When you develop a PhD proposal you need to demonstrate not only that it adds to the sum of knowledge and academic prestige of the institution and the tutor supervising, but also how it will be funded.

I know personally the costs of funding a PhD in the Arts and a PhD in the science costs far, far more, particularly if it involves original research. Which is where anglers can of course be a useful resource. Keeping records, taking scales all that sort of stuff we can do for free. One of the reasons research into Salmon has been popular is that there are good records going back over many years of Salmon catches, river conditions, water temperatures etc. Some going back to the eighteenth century. Nothing like that exists in the world of coarse fish.

I have been talking to our (Uni of Birmingham) history department, where a student is preparing a PhD on the history of recreational uses of the River Severn itself. She has loads of stuff about Salmon, next to nothing before the second half of the 20th C on coarse angling...even though I would guess a lot more people fished for the roach, eels etc. than ever fished for the Salmon.
 
Pete,
There must be masses of information in old match reports from the Severn. Especially in relation to changes in usage over time. What has she been able to get on the salmon other than catch reports?
 
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Its all history stuff, diaries, detailed river conditions, social history sorts of stuff. Diaries are a great source of social history...rich salmon anglers kept them, poor roach anglers rarely did.

Match fishing reports are useful (and scientists rather than social historians could make much better use of these) as are old minute books etc. from angling clubs although far harder to track down until after the 1st world war, when they start to appear in the local newspapers.

The stuff that now appears on these sorts of forums (which one day will be the subject of at least one social historians PhD) was discussed down the pub rather than ever written down, whilst Salmon anglers wrote a lot more, letters to friends, diaries etc. Just a basic class thing really, as with any social history the bias is always to those that recorded stuff. Most coarse anglers didn't write much down in the past, so social histories of recreational fishing is always over stating (in my opinion) the role of angling as sport for the upper classes and a source of food for the poor. In reality poor people fished for pleasure as much as for food as can be seen in some paintings from the period, JMW Turner's "Trout fishing at Corwen" being a favourite of mine).

You have to reference writers from the late 18th and early 19th C such as Bewick and the "Lovers of Freedom" to see writings in defence of poor peoples rights to fish rivers for pleasure, which was gradually being prevented by the "game" anglers. Large chunks of the Severn were forbidden territory during the 19th C, fishing banned on Sundays (as it still is in parts of Scotland) to protect working people 's immortal souls (rather more to prevent them poaching on their only day off work), although coarse anglers regularly fished it. Writing stuff down too much would have made prosecution even more likely even if they could have.

By the early 20th C you do start to get some better records as various working class clubs in the Midlands are formed specifically to raise money to purchase fishing rights on rivers in the area.

This particular student is doing a more general research into all the recreational uses, not just angling. I am hoping to drive her further down the path of researching angling in more detail!!!

I spoke to her as my PhD (when it is finished sometime in the next millennium) concerns angling as represented in art of the late 18th and early 19th C so we have some common interests.
 
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Me too actually Tony, didn't even do History O'Level. Hated Biology as well and dropped that,whilst I now find the subject fascinating.
Still like Tamla Motown, David Bowie and Birmingham City FC tho'....
 
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