• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Angling Times otter article

Joe Winstanley said:
Re pesticides - it all depends on the compound, the soil type, land-use and rainfall.

If you take the Teme for example, a large proportion of the catchment is dominated by free-draining loamy soils which are in arable cultivation and the subject to moderately high annual rainfall. As you say its a spate river and is fed by surface water, hence the majority of water will will have flowed through the soil and into the river. Pretty good conditions of leaching you would say.
Click to expand...
Well what you say is true of the (lower) middle and lower regions of the Teme, but I'd have thought (I've got no actual figures to prove this) that the majority of the flow/water feed comes from/off the Welsh hills, where pesticides/biocides are far from extensively used. There's a lot of pastural land bordering the Teme too, plus the hop-growing mainstay obviously.
 
Water abstraction and quality is obviously a massive problem and certainly so in the Thames region. For quite a few years now the Cherwell has run a muddy brown colour throughout the summer, due it would seem to a number of factors. It was noticeable how clean it was last spring when the lockdown reduced boat traffic and even the Oxford canal looked like an aquarium. This obviously points to boat traffic in the canalised stretches contributing to the problem. But there has always been boat traffic and it can be assumed that abstraction leading to very poor flow rates also prevents the water clearing itself very efficiently. This has an impact on weed growth and areas like Somerton and Heyford that used to be strong flowing with great beds of streamer weed now more resemble ditches, muddy ditches at that. Clearly not the fault of the otters on this score, but they certainly finished off what had been started.

The EA has limited interest/ability to do anything about the situation. I called them a few years ago and was told the reason the river ran dirty was because it ran through an agricultural valley. Struggling to think of a river that didn't, I pointed out that the Cherwell had run through an agricultural valley since agriculture was first started but hadn't always looked like a muddy ditch. The reply was that somebody would call back next day but unsurprisingly nobody did.
 
Terry Simner said:
Well what you say is true of the (lower) middle and lower regions of the Teme, but I'd have thought (I've got no actual figures to prove this) that the majority of the flow/water feed comes from/off the Welsh hills, where pesticides/biocides are far from extensively used. There's a lot of pastural land bordering the Teme too, plus the hop-growing mainstay obviously.
Click to expand...

Yes I your right about the Welsh catchment and high proportion of pasture land. Not without issues though, often some of the pastoral areas have the worst issues with pesticides, often because they are applied by users who because they don't use them that often, aren't as professional or competent at applying, storing and disposing of pesticides as their arable counterparts are. One of the many reasons the Teme is failing WFD Good Ecological status is due to to elevated levels of grassland pesticides such as MCPA and Mecoprop.

Then there is the issue of the million or so sheep that all get treated with sheep dips annually. Even with the best husbandry in the world some of it is going to end up in the river...but at least they banned some of the very worst ones a few years back.
 
Last edited:
Graham Elliott said:
Joe.
With any introduction or re introduction of species, what we always seem to see is an initial spurt.

As per barbel in the Severn, crayfish, and other types of mammals....rabbits in Oz for example.

This happens until a balance gets achieved according to environmental factors, available food etc.

Otter expansion has been fast. Obvious from the sightings now being made.

There will eventually be a balance achieved, but meanwhile they have a serious affect on fish populations. More so due to the Eel numbers.
Click to expand...
I can't help but wonder if young barbel growing up in a river alongside otters, might be more successful at evading predation than a generation of fish that hadn't really seen otters before and perhaps hadn't developed effective anti-predation behaviours ?
 
Joe Winstanley said:
I can't help but wonder if young barbel growing up in a river alongside otters, might be more successful at evading predation than a generation of fish that hadn't really seen otters before and perhaps hadn't developed effective anti-predation behaviours ?
Click to expand...
That's one of Pete Reading's opinions in the article, but quite how you would begin to study or test that theory beyond anecdotal opinion...
 
Joe Winstanley said:
I can't help but wonder if young barbel growing up in a river alongside otters, might be more successful at evading predation than a generation of fish that hadn't really seen otters before and perhaps hadn't developed effective anti-predation behaviours ?
Click to expand...

Perhaps the otters would make friends with the barbel, or maybe they would eat them, I know what my money would be on.
 
Edward Adcock said:
www.northdevonanglingnews.co.uk

Otters - A Wider Perspective - North Devon Angling News - The latest up to date information

The otter below can be seen by appointment at Blakewell Fishery where they are working with the UK Wild Otter Trust. I visited Blakewell Fishery recently where I met Dave Webb a founder of the UK Wild Otter Trust. It … Continued
www.northdevonanglingnews.co.uk www.northdevonanglingnews.co.uk

An interesting article
Click to expand...
It is an excellent article ... a well informed article that paints a bleak picture of the chances of the survival of the UK barbel population.
 
Terry Simner said:
It is an excellent article ... a well informed article that paints a bleak picture of the chances of the survival of the UK barbel population.
Click to expand...
And a pretty bleak picture for the future of otters as well.

The reference to Hampshire, Dorset and Wiltshire being included within the releases by the Otter Trust is new to me. Never seen that in print before.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
And a pretty bleak picture for the future of otters as well.

The reference to Hampshire, Dorset and Wiltshire being included within the releases by the Otter Trust is new to me. Never seen that in print before.
Click to expand...
Whilst having no wish to sounds like a conspiracy theorist (got a tin hat, so fire away), I think there's been a lot that hasn't got into print (yet). Why would they print unless they need to.
 
Hi men ,

What ever people's stance on this , without doubt the otter has finished at least 3 of the rivers we used to fish , and that's a fact . The fact that recruitment levels are poor is true as well , but that's little consultation to sue , as her barbel rods are in a cupboard , even after years of me trying to get her out she has given up completely 😕.

Myself iv taken to France as my favoured place to fish , for carp obviously , but covid has put paid to that for a while . This season iv joined a lake not far from me and iv gone against a golden rule as it has no otter fencing . I always said I would not pay out hard earned cash on a lake that was not protected , but I'm hoping the at over 200 acres with a low stock they might a little safer.

Hatter
 
At the end of the day this is a conservation problem. Put Angling to one side and what we are all highlighting is that our native wildlife and the environment they live in is under intense threat. To me it feels like Anglers are stood pointing at this sinking ship and being ignored while a small group pat their own backs about how lovely the paint job is.
 
I can't really argue with this statement:

This is why we need to concentrate on the river sustainability to ensure that they will hold all species and predators and then, otters will indeed find that natural balance that is very much required. This will ensure that we have healthy, sustainable rivers full of prime fish and apex predators such as the otter along with a varied list of other wildlife.

I'm sure many of us have been to other parts of the world, where both predator and prey thrive in aquatic environments.

So as usual it come down to DEFRA, in my last dealings with the Environment Agency, over the River Dane's demise, all we got back, was that there was no funding and DEFRA/the government hadn't made it a priority......... They just tried to fob us off with 'Citizen Science' projects, of which they'd have done nothing with the results. Oh and we had to fund these projects ourselves.

Things will only change when the Green Party comes to power, but they will probably ban fishing!
 
Neil Blood said:
I can't really argue with this statement:

This is why we need to concentrate on the river sustainability to ensure that they will hold all species and predators and then, otters will indeed find that natural balance that is very much required. This will ensure that we have healthy, sustainable rivers full of prime fish and apex predators such as the otter along with a varied list of other wildlife.
Click to expand...
But ... will it ever be possible for large female barbel to co-exist in small to medium sized rivers? Otters will always take the easy option when it comes to satisfying their nutritional needs, and large females (especially around spawning time) will be the proverbial 'sitting ducks'.
 
Terry Simner said:
But ... will it ever be possible for large female barbel to co-exist in small to medium sized rivers? Otters will always take the easy option when it comes to satisfying their nutritional needs, and large females (especially around spawning time) will be the proverbial 'sitting ducks'.
Click to expand...
The two species managed to co-exist in the Thames and Trent river systems for at least 10,000 years. Barbel must have developed some otter anti-predation strategies in that time?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top