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angletec dynamic lead system

Not for me.
What on earth does the centre of gravity have to do with efficient hooking?
I do wonder if all these systems designed to shed the lead weight are really healthy for our fish, aren't we risking filling our waters with lead?
 
Damian

I couldn't agree more.

Mr Fairbrass and his mates do very nicely out of brainwashing carp anglers that dumping the lead is a must in order to stop the carp using it to 'de-hook' itself.

I shudder to think how much lead is lying on the lakebed of our carp fisheries because of **** advice from people with a vested interest in anglers losing every lead when they catch a carp.

We must not allow our chosen passion to be tainted with the same stupid ideas.

All that is required are safe rigs that do not leave a fish trailing leads and tackle around after a fish loss.
 
Keith Humphreys said:
Damian

I couldn't agree more.

Mr Fairbrass and his mates do very nicely out of brainwashing carp anglers that dumping the lead is a must in order to stop the carp using it to 'de-hook' itself.

I shudder to think how much lead is lying on the lakebed of our carp fisheries because of **** advice from people with a vested interest in anglers losing every lead when they catch a carp.

We must not allow our chosen passion to be tainted with the same stupid ideas.

All that is required are safe rigs that do not leave a fish trailing leads and tackle around after a fish loss.
Click to expand...


Hooray for the voice of reason, I make my own leads and feeders and still hate loosing them. On one stretch of the Severn in Ironbridge the bottom is a conglomeration of a load of buildings which fell in the river due to the banks subsiding and millions of broken roof tiles which were kiln spoil from the tile works up stream and simply dumped in the river, it is a massive snag pit. I use a bit of broken tile as a lead there tied on with two elastic bands. Danny (et al) can kiss my butt.
In other areas where there are loads of snags a decent fishing technique will cut losses to a minimum, If you hold your rod while fishing you wont get taken into the snags by a fish, if you always strike as high as you can and retrieve like crazy when retrieving your rig you will lift the lead clear of any snags or gulleys and on the odd occasion when you do find yourself snaged if you let out a long, at least 20 yards loop ant then strike hard and fast upstream you will often pull it free, you could also make a makeshift otter from a bit of wood (younger readers might have to google that). If all else fails and you have to pull for a break so long as you are using a safe rig it should all fall free on the bottom anyway.
 
Ade, I agree entirely that setups that are designed to eject the lead the instant you get a hook-up are money making nonsense put forward by the lead suppliers. However, to fish with a rig which cannot eject the lead/feeder in any circumstances, other than to break the main line....is in my opinion an even bigger nonsense.

It is one thing snag fishing locked up, with the rod pointing straight at the rig, with VERY heavy tackle....to stop a fish heading towards a known snag....but an entirely different scenario if you are actually fishing IN a snag-pit as you describe. If your rig is lying amongst an absolute litter of building rubble as you mention, or the natural rocks/boulders/natural crevices which make up the bed of many rivers, then there is a distinct possibility of your lead/feeder occasionally being already caught in a snag when the fish takes...what good does holding the rod (or any of your other ploys) do then? Ultimately, as you say, you will then have to pull for a break...which will result at the very least in a hooked fish towing a link and possibly a swivel or whatever....and you losing everything, let alone the lead.

Now, I bow to your wealth of knowledge in fishing in such circumstances compared to mine....that's a no brainer. However, other VERY experienced anglers fishing in similar conditions (Jon Frisby for one) do not agree with you....which tells me that this is another of those anomalies in angling....different anglers coming up with different answers to a given problem. So....looking at the this from my perspective, it seems to me that if you were using an Enterprise Snag Safe Clip or similar when the lead/feeder got unavoidably snagged, then a STRONG heave would have the link clip breaking, releasing the lead/feeder but leaving you free to continue playing the fish. OK, you would lose the lead in those extreme circumstances....but I know what I would prefer. Does that not sound reasonable as well :D

I do like your "lump of tile" weight though, I used to use a rough stone on a rotten bottom while eel fishing in the Cuckmere estuary...worked a treat :D.

Cheers, Dave
 
I think losing the lead in weedy situations must be an advantage to assist in getting a large barbel back through any weed it may have shot through. A running lead that cant discharge itself must be a hinderance in my opinion
 
Dave
Read Ade's post again mate, he says use a safe rig and it will unload on the bottom!
A bit of tile held by two lacky bands will pull off with very little effort.

I’ll bet there are 50 posts or more on facebook about him using killer rigs already.
 
Kevin Daly said:
Dave
Read Ade's post again mate, he says use a safe rig and it will unload on the bottom!
A bit of tile held by two lacky bands will pull off with very little effort.

I’ll bet there are 50 posts or more on facebook about him using killer rigs already.
Click to expand...

I know Kevin, I apologise, I didn't explain myself too well there, although I did mention Ades use of a piece of tile as a weight when fishing THAT swim. However, he then goes on to talk of other snaggy swims where he uses other techniques to free a trapped lead. These techniques are fine for trying to free trapped leads when there isn't a fish attached...but they won't work if there is. My real point is that Ade is condemning all rigs which release leads, irrespective of type. There are two threads running on this same subject at the moment, and Ade says as much in both. OK, fine....he is entitled to his opinion, as we all are. I am doing exactly the same thing, calmly and non aggressively stating my opinion on the subject.

I said earlier that I couldn't agree more with Ade on the subject of those ludicrous rigs designed to eject the lead instantly on the take, or those that do so at the slightest hint of resistance....they are, as Ade said, dreamt up by con merchants, for use in carp fishing more than any other field. However, in my opinion....the Enterprise type clip, which will only release the lead if you give them some hefty heaving in an emergency situation....are a safety device that should not be condemned out of hand as being part of the 'con trick' above. They are very different animals indeed, and better anglers than I consider them as indispensable for all the reasons covered many times before.

I am not quite sure why it is that when most folk post their opinions on whatever subject on this forum, it is recognised and accepted as being just that. What does NOT seem to be accepted in some quarters is any other opinions that follow....they are deemed as 'aggressive posting' or even victimising the previous poster....I really don't get it. I am the least aggressive person you could hope to meet, on or off the forum...I don't 'victimise' anyone. If it comes over as that, then I apologise...it CERTAINLY is not intended to be.

Cheers, Dave.
 
An opinion is "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge".
Given my experience and knowledge of fishing rocky areas and those containing steep gulleys I am confident in my methods and do not feel the need to add twiddly bits or weak links to my rigs.
That is not my opinion, it is my judgement and is taken on the evidence of experience. Others with less experience or confidence in their abilities may choose to do different, that is their choice.
 
From all I've seen and heard, the centre of gravity thing does work for carp. I'm not remotely convinced that it would make any difference on flowing water though. Korda also have a similar, but not quite as elegant, COG system leads.

I'm not convinced that the Angletec system is an automatic lead dumping system any more than a conventional lead and safety clip/rubber is. I'd certainly hope not at £2.50 a pop for the full system and £1.80/£2.00 for the lead alone. However, until I give them a go for myself, I'll reserve judgement. It's also worth bearing in mind that the Angletec system does away with the lead clip, which aren't free. £0.60 ish per clip and tail rubber plus £1.40 for a standard lead (based on Korda prices (Korda COG leads are about £1.80)) suggests that the Angletec is probably about 50p over the odds on a normal system and 20p over the equivalent Korda COG system.

I won't fish a method or a venue that requires the use of routine lead dumping techniques to land a fish. Dumping lead is simply too hard on my pocket. However, whilst conceding that it can't be particularly good, I'm not entirely convinced that leads being dumped is the environmental armaggedon that some make out. I'm also less than convinced that such techniques are as widely used by ordinary Joe Carper as the tackle companies and magazines make out. Lets face it, they do have a vested interest in persuading everyone that it's the done thing.

I've fished a hell of a lot this year and I'm chuffed to bits that I've only lost one lead in all that time. I'd have been happier if I'd lost none.
 
It's funny how attitudes change. Around 7 or 8 years ago I posted on the old bfw that I routinely fished a spot on the Severn where the bottom comprises of collapsed buildings, waste from a Victorian tile works and slag from the iron works which the area is famed for.
Obviously the place is a tackle eater and to reduce the cost I used old spark plugs on a rotten bottom paternoster.
You would not believe the stick I took over that revelation. Despite the fact that a spark plug is no more than a ferrous core surrounded by a vitreous insulator and virtually inert in water I was accused of causing more environmental pollution than the Exxon Valdez and Chernobyl combined.

And here we are a few short years later in a situation where anglers (or consumers I should say) are being actively encouraged to dump the lead (which is not inert in water) at the slightest hint of a snag or even on the pick-up.

I don't get it.
 
After using the Angletec leads on a 48hr session, I can now confirm that the Angletec leads are not the auto-dumping system that some have wrongly assumed. I did lose one lead. However, that was on a fish that had weeded me. Every normal fishless retrieve saw the lead return each time.

These are simply an alternative to the more usual lead and leadclip arrangement that most will be familiar with. The closest arrangement is actually the Korda COG system. If you are going to compare prices then this is probably the comparison that should be made.

Having used them I now know for sure that I won't be barbeling with them. As to whether the centre of gravity thing is effective, I'll never really know either way. I will be persisting with them while I can though.
 
Still think the blurb surrounding efficient hooking being down to the centre of gravity is nonsense, as it is just a point of balance in a body's mass. What efficient hooking relies upon is weight!
 
Damian Kimmins said:
Still think the blurb surrounding efficient hooking being down to the centre of gravity is nonsense, as it is just a point of balance in a body's mass. What efficient hooking relies upon is weight!
Click to expand...

Yes, but if you pick up a a foot long seel bar at one end, allowing the other end to stay on the floor, will it feel lighter than if you pick it up in the middle?

Tie a bit of line to a leger, like I was sad enough to do, and drag them around a bit. Pick the line up at various different angles. You can feel the difference between different styles of lead. As I said before, whether it makes any real world difference will be impossible to prove. However, just from the sad little experiment of dragging a few leads about, I can say that not all 2.5oz weights feel to be the same weight when you pull a line from them. If you can get away with using a lighter lead yet still maintain efficient hooking, so much the better in my eyes. I don't much like fishing with leads greater than 2.5oz. If the COG thing allows me to use a slightly lighter lead but achieve the hooking effect of a bigger lead, so much the better.

Anyhow, as I said before, I'm not especially sure of the COG theory myself. I am sure that the Angletec is not an auto lead dumping system though.
 
Chris Jones said:
Yes, but if you pick up a a foot long seel bar at one end, allowing the other end to stay on the floor, will it feel lighter than if you pick it up in the middle?

Tie a bit of line to a leger, like I was sad enough to do, and drag them around a bit. Pick the line up at various different angles. You can feel the difference between different styles of lead. As I said before, whether it makes any real world difference will be impossible to prove. However, just from the sad little experiment of dragging a few leads about, I can say that not all 2.5oz weights feel to be the same weight when you pull a line from them. If you can get away with using a lighter lead yet still maintain efficient hooking, so much the better in my eyes. I don't much like fishing with leads greater than 2.5oz. If the COG thing allows me to use a slightly lighter lead but achieve the hooking effect of a bigger lead, so much the better.

Anyhow, as I said before, I'm not especially sure of the COG theory myself. I am sure that the Angletec is not an auto lead dumping system though.
Click to expand...

I tried pointing that out a number of times earlier in this thread Chris...but gave up in exasperation in the end. People see what they want to see when they read something, not necessarily what is actually there. I used to think it was only women that did that...after several years on this forum, I now know better :p

As for Damians statement that 'What efficient hooking relies upon is weight'....in certain conditions on my river, I get rather efficient three foot wraparounds which invariably self hook...using two or three swan shot. Does that prove anything? Or is it just a pointer to the fact that anything CAN work....depending on a whole lot of factors all exerting their influence at that particular time :rolleyes::D:D

Cheers, Dave.
 
I understand that Chris, but don't you think that is only a possible advantage if the lead is being picked up from somewhere near vertically above it? Or least 45' past the horizontal?
 
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Damian Kimmins said:
I understand that Chris, but don't you think that is only a possible advantage if the lead is being picked up from somewhere near vertically above it? Or least 45' past the horizontal?
Click to expand...

Yep, which, as I mentioned previously, is why I think it makes a lot of sense for stillwater carping but I'll not be using it on a river.
 
Ye gods
Have a think! It’s called a bolt rig cos when a fish feels the ***** of the hook it gets its arse in gear and moves off rapid thus hooking itself against the inertia of the weight. How much difference in hooking potential does the 10mm rotation of the lead around its centre of gravity allow???? A tenth of a second! Fish do not think/react that quick.
 
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