• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

A Question. Is there an answer? Floods.

Graham Elliott

Graham Elliott

Senior Member & Supporter
After the Springtime floods some years ago the Rivers Kennet and the Teme seemed pretty empty of barbel. Prior to that they were prolific rivers.

Now, after the highest recorded floods on the Lower Severn and the Wye, this season the Lower Severn, apart from the odd capture seems barren of barbel.
I know of at least 45 sessions of pals that would have given around a total of 85 fish on average by now. Total 2.

The Wye is producing good numbers but in very specific areas. So that seems not so serious.

So. Thoughts?
 
The Wye has been patchy for me. I’m probably getting out once or twice a week but only for a few hours at a time and it’s mostly in the evenings. I’ve had a few barbel blanks (especially at the start of the season) but catching quite regularly now. However it’s a couple of fish each trip and the most I’ve had is 5 in a session. That makes for a perfectly enjoyable few hours but it’s nothing like the catch rate I’ve enjoyed in previous seasons. I feel we are past the point where I could put this down to post spawning localisation and feel something else is up. The chub seem far more active though. I can’t believe the floods, which were biblical, aren’t a big factor here.
 
Conditions still pretty terrible with the low water, to early to say I think, if it's still poor come September I'd be worried.
 
Definitely had an impact.
you cannot have floods like that and not expect a good few casualties as a result.
There will of also been some significant changes to the rivers and features. Typical fish holding swims that we knew may not be the same anymore and the less prolific swims may now be the bumpers.
who knows what’s being washed, cut, smashed and landed where.
 
Yes that's nature for you. The Yorkshire Ouse was in the doldrums after the huge flooding in about 2001. My local river and drains haven't been the same since the 2007 deluge (other reasons as well). My limited time on the Trent this season, although I have done OK, is not as prolific as in previous seasons. Extensive flooding /prolonged river levels do take their toll imho. Spate rivers such as the Wye seem to bear up better but can still knock the quality of the fishing if really extensive for long periods.
 
A couple of thoughts ....
Re. the Teme .... On average I caught more barbel per session after the huge floods of 2007 than before. I caught a prolific number Autumn 2007 and in 2008. I saw the full result of an obvious massive decline (outside of natural variation) in 2013 onwards. From this I don't believe the barbel were 'pushed downstream', or into the fields (I personally never actually found a stranded barbel) But I'm pretty sure that potential year classes were wiped out by silting on previously spawned upon gravels.
Re. the WAvon ... although it's not prone to flood to the extent of many UK rivers, this too appears to have suffered the same decline in results so far this season.
 
The Warks Avon did decline after the 2007 floods but nowhere to the level it has declined in the last 3 or 4 years. It has always mystified me why really bad floods have more effect on the fish than a standard flood. After all, once the river spills into the fields that's it, the severity of the flooding is then a problem for the surrounding area, but the river will be the same if the overspill goes fifty metres inland or 500 metres. Presumably it will run at the same pace for a flood that has just reached the top of the banks as for one that has spilled over. I think perhaps in 2007 the floods were so prolonged with little let up that it was the length of time the rivers were at full pelt more than the actual severity of the flood.
 
Really enjoying reading this thread. I can see similarities in three rivers I fish. The river Soar in Leicestershire the Derbyshire Derwent and the Dove. They got so bad I stopped fishing for barbel but this season things seem to be slowly changing for the better. I've had three barbel sessions and not yet had one but know of people who have and the barbel seem to be of all sizes from a few ounces to 13lb plus fish and from all three rivers.
It's enough of a change to get me interested again and I'll keep trying.
 
Could it be that in a prolonged flood many fish find too little food to maintain condition ? They then get washed down stream and perish. My guess is that during a flood predators find it hard to catch fish, but after the waters recede, if the fish are in poor condition, they become easy pickings.
 
The Tidal Trent after 2012 catches dropped off by a good 50 percent imo. This years floods have again done the same. I'm catching, 4 to 6lbers and even around half a pound. Not in numbers at all, scratching for bites. Not sure where the bigger barbel have gone either. Personally I think they are spawning again. One thing I am sure about is, it will get better as it can't get much worse.
 
Howard Cooke said:
Alex I wonder if it’s also about what sh*t gets taken back into the watercourse? Do more pollutants end up in the river after a severe flood versus a normal one.
Click to expand...
Definitely a factor I would think Howard. One well known angler I was talking to said industry could well use massive floods to illegally dump stuff as the chances of it being accurately traced back were minimal.
 
Alex Gowney said:
Definitely a factor I would think Howard. One well known angler I was talking to said industry could well use massive floods to illegally dump stuff as the chances of it being accurately traced back were minimal.
Click to expand...
There’s no secret behind it, Thames water in particular have discharged raw sewage into the river as they “cannot handle the load” indeed I believe they are even legally allowed to do so under special circumstances.
 
Water Companies are legally allowed to close up their Waste Water Treatment Plants when they go into storm conditions. This has always happened and is because the amount of surface area that would be required to treat all the water in storm conditions would be completely uneconomic to buy, build and to man. This is done by all waste water companies and is a fact of life.

In the past the EA would give token fines for breaches outside of storm conditions, they finally realised that if they gave a £10,000 fine three times a year for an illegal discharge into the environment but to stop it would cost the water company £750,000 it is a bit of a no brainer and nothing would get done as the fines were a pittance compared to the cost of prevention.

Just prior to my leaving the Water Company (I was an Area Manager of some Clean Water Treatment Works) the EA had started doubling up on the fines given. Thus the first fine was £20,000, the 2nd fine for the same offence was £40,000 and the 3rd Fine was £80,000 so instead of £30.000 for the fines in a year it had become £140,000, if this kept up after I left two more fines would have taken it over the cost of prevention and I know that the works had already been put in place by the company to remedy that particular problem.

As for storm water, there is not a treatment works on the planet that will be built to handle the amount of water caused by a storm, this is especially more relevant with the urbanisation of rural areas, building on flood plains and large green spaces being taken up with concrete and tarmac creating massive amounts of runoff.
 
I do not think Floods flush Barbel downstream to die but I do think that they allow for easy movement up or downstream and away they go to pastures new. Someone elsewhere will benefit from your fish you just need to find out where they went to. Maybe some will remember the club that stocked a large number of Barbel a couple of years ago on the Severn, there dye marked fish were caught on a match 30 miles downstream within a short period. If you watched some of the Terry hearn videos on here during lockdown he talked about the Thames carp that moved many miles upstream. I used to fish in India and the river would come up over 30ft in the monsoon and some of the bigger more noticeable fish were caught year on year. One that was kinked up with half a tail after an attack by a crocodile was caught over many years on the stretch. My local river rarely comes up more than 15cm even in really wet periods the highest it cam up in 2014 was about a foot where I am, but we do get 3 sewage works that dump sewage when it rains.
 
The raw sewage discharge is a real problem, not 100% sure that was the reason I fell ill from catching a bug in flood conditions on the Lower Severn last June, but I have a feeling it could have been. It resulted in an emergency operation, and part of my bowel removed, as a result I have been 're plumbed' if you like, I nearly cashed my chips in....no way should we have this situation in 2020, a case of profits before peoples health. I shudder when I see the new fad of wild swimmers , and paddle boarders that are everywhere, if they only knew.
 
IMO
The one fish most capable of dealing if not thriving with fast water surely is barbel.
If they get washed downstream in high water then surely absolutly nothing else would survive ??
Is there plenty of fry , bleak and chub still about ? {surely all less comfortable in a very strong flow)
Maybe poor old barbel fry did suffer , but that is only one years hatch,,,,, its nature.
Surely most fish would seek out slacker water at the margins and sit it out , having the odd nibble on anything suitable that came by.
Dont feel lack of feeding is an issue given we anglers all greet "reasonably" high coloured water with anticipation much like the barbel.
I would guess most fish can survive for 5 or 6 days without a good feed.
The time of year the flood happened would have seen most barbel in pretty good condition wouldnt it ?
As said what difference is it to the fish if water is at the top of the bank or in the field way beyond.
Have any casulalties been seen, found stranded ,beached. ?
Sure some chemicals and substances would be detrimental but the sheer volumn of water must dilute these so much.

So a few questions and lots of speculation that fish should still be around but none to prove they still are Ha ! 😃

I just hope that things continue to improve and the fish start to show again.
..........And more importantly lets all keep safe from this CV pox that has changed our lives.
M
 
Fished the Wye twice in a fortnight low clear and sunny both times. 4 Chub to 4lb first time out, had 8 to 5lb yesterday, I've hooked one Barbel each trip. Not a Wye regular though so done know if this regular form. I was fishing the the Creel.
 
I've already caught more chub this season (accidentally) than maybe in the whole of last season. I've avoided fishing the popular and well fished fast/shallow/streamier bits of river as, historically, I've found them to be mostly populated by smaller barbel. And although I've caught a lot fewer barbel than expected and hoped for, each one caught has been in great condition, and has fought frighteningly🤪 well.
That is, I've no idea why I've caught relatively few barbel this season, but all those fish I have caught have been in great condition.
Dunno.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top