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What's going to work? Team work!

Nick Clark said:
No graham, there is a need to create dialogues to effect change, otherwise it's force or rhetoric Forums have a habit of giving a distorted view - that of those that post the most is not always representive of anything other than that position. Need to look at ways forward I reckon.
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Nick I am sure that you realise that the point you raise about those that post the most not being representative,( you are of course correct)
works both ways doesn't it?

I would agree that "we need to look at ways forward" who do we as anglers create dialogue with and what ways can we look forward?

Angling is so diverse IMO that the views of anglers are just the same, some as can be seen from this thread think working with others is the way forward while at the other end of the scale others would want to see all none fishy predators eradicated from the face of the earth, They all think their view is the right one. I am afraid that all anglers will never agree on some things and this could go on and on getting us nowhere so for me that's it.
 
who do we as anglers create dialogue with and what ways can we look forward?
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The example at the head of the thread might be a good place to start, the river Ribble Long Preston Deeps project. It shows there can be successful outcomes to having dialogues with River Trusts, Natural England, Government, Local council’s and Landowners and yes the RSPB and EA. The Angling Trust is perfectly poised and making hedway in this - for instance in the Inland Cormorant issue the bigger picture is that there is at least now some kind of dialogue and relationship that allows them to have a say in other issues. It’s never going to be perfect but we need to put away past greiviences, stop knocking the people that are at least trying to do something. Join and get behind the AT , help shape it and by all means offer constructive criticism from within, rather than shoot negativity across their bows from a distance.

Nick
 
Nick Clark said:
The example at the head of the thread might be a good place to start, the river Ribble Long Preston Deeps project. It shows there can be successful outcomes to having dialogues with River Trusts, Natural England, Government, Local council’s and Landowners and yes the RSPB and EA. The Angling Trust is perfectly poised and making hedway in this - for instance in the Inland Cormorant issue the bigger picture is that there is at least now some kind of dialogue and relationship that allows them to have a say in other issues. It’s never going to be perfect but we need to put away past greiviences, stop knocking the people that are at least trying to do something. Join and get behind the AT , help shape it and by all means offer constructive criticism from within, rather than shoot negativity across their bows from a distance.

Nick
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Stop talking sense Nick. It's disorientating.

Dave
 
When making the initial post I was in a bit of turmoil as i had a couple of links in mind regarding working together, one for the Ribble and one for the Irwell. Went for the Ribble option as it's a more recognised Barbel river which in hindsight may have been a mistake considering it also supports Salmon and involved the RSPB! Martin James post put's payed to the elitist club theory, with regards the RSPB - we're not talking about selling our river stretches to them! Just using their money for habitat improvements.
Another reason i didn't use the Irwell option is they are quite happy that Otters have returned to the river. Perhaps that might have been the lesser of 2 evils, I'm not sure, but prepared to find out! Here's the link for the Irwell clip i had in mind: Restoration Revolution - The River Irwell - YouTube
Here's a link to Salford Friendly Anglers site giving a brief summary of the Rivers Return project and how it will work. http://salfordfriendlyanglers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Irwell-Plan-summary-medium-Final.pdf
 
brockholes nature reserve!

seen a article in the Salford advertiser this week over there great result in getting a visit of a otter as they said "the holy grail"abd in the next breath stating that anglers "DO NOT LIKE OTTERS" is this working together?
 
Mark Gaskell said:
seen a article in the Salford advertiser this week over there great result in getting a visit of a otter as they said "the holy grail"abd in the next breath stating that anglers "DO NOT LIKE OTTERS" is this working together?
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Well you don't do you? Sounds like they are reporting facts as you would like them to be herd to me. Thought you would be pleased about that, after all, they could only come to conclusions like that by reading the comments of yours and other like minded anglers on forums like this! Ever considered such comments could be damaging to the reputation of angling? No? Never mind. I'm just glad there are people out there who are prepared to put the effort in to work with others to make our rivers healthier ecosystems.
 
?

on this thread where have I said I don't like otters? I haven't ! I don't like commorants,mink, and would not blink an eye if the numbers of theses two were dramatically reduced,only thing about the otters is illegal releases of them!,this is where the problem has occurred.
 
So, how to sum up this excellent thread started by Andrew Boyne? Andrews stance is that there are shining examples out there of angling clubs working closely with non angling groups for the betterment of the environment as a whole. This is a fact and I have had personal experience of this approach being a success. Working with the local council, the EA and the landowner we were able to provide additional waters for the club that have been a huge asset.

I also have experience of it being a total failure.

A club I was involved with formed an alliance with English Nature to renovate a completely overgrown pond of about 3 acres. Planning meetings went well and the interests of both parties were taken into consideration regarding providing ideal habitat for fish and shallower areas to suit Demoiselle and Dragon Flies which was our partner’s particular aim. Months of hard work followed and the end result was a testament to the sweat of both parties. However the moment we started fishing the water there were nonstop artificially created “incidents†between us that resulted in the club being kicked off following a closed meeting between English Nature and the landlord. It turned out that this was their agenda all along and they had no intention of sharing the water with us; using the club only as a means of getting an inroad to the site and free labour.

The point is that there are many groups out there who have the good of environment at heart. However they will NEVER be suitable for working with anglers for one very simple reason which we choose to conveniently forget. No matter how much good work we as anglers do (and there is absolutely no doubt that we do a lot) the people in the RSPB and English Nature and God knows how many more will not join with anglers because they think angling is CRUEL. This reason above ALL others is why we cannot have a lasting alliance and why we need to stand alone and be strong. If we were to ally with anyone it would need to be the pro fox hunting lobby as this group is the only one we have anything in common with as we both pursue a live animal for sport.

It has also been stated that we will never be strong because of the fact that we as anglers cannot get along, and the spats that occur in forums such as this are given as an example. This is simply not true and the reason there are so many heated posts is because of the medium of the forum itself. If the same discussion was had in a pub there would, of course, be differences of opinion but because of the fact that we could talk directly to each other then other subliminal avenues of communication such as body language come into play and entirely different meanings are conveyed. Emoticons just cannot do this. To the best of my knowledge I have never insulted anyone on this forum, but that does not stop people sending me offensive PM’s because they have taken what I have written incorrectly.

So, is the AT the right way forward for us to be a standalone force to get things done? I make no bones about having been critical of the AT on this forum. But what I want to make completely clear is that I really WANT the AT to be a success but I have grave reservations that their agenda at the highest level has more to do with providing self sustaining employment for officials first and anglers second. I get no pleasure from writing this. Personally I used to think the old ACA were brilliant and I subscribed to them for many years. They sent me regular updates listing all the court cases that they were involved in and to me seemed to really be fighting for the environment. Then came the Bob James resignation over the apparent misuse of funds. I immediately contacted the ACA for the facts which they flatly refused to provide, so there must have been some skulduggery going on that meant that my subscriptions were lining pockets rather than going where they should have. Therefore my reticence to join a body to represent my interests is born out of bitter experience rather than being the "nit picking doomsayer" that my PM's accuse me of.

I do not have the answers regarding how we find a way to move forward, I wish I did, but I know that we must if something as simple as a nice days fishing is ever going to survive.

Steve
 
A cracking post Steve, everything well put and in a nutshell shows why anglers should be wary of strangers bearing gifts.
 
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Good video, will raise some questions .. Good points made by all, me I'm all for river improvements as long as it helps the habitat and helps future fish stocks but I do feel that the coarse angler is on the bottom end of the pecking order ...... As for At ?????
 
Steve, that is the most 'spot on' of many other 'spot on' posts that I have seen for a long time. It mirrors my experience in so many ways I found it almost disturbing :D. Like you, I was shaken to the core by the Bob James fiasco years back, and am deeply disturbed by some of the goings on in the AT now. I pay my dues and support them, as I see no options...but not happily.

And yes, people do tend to throw their toys out of the pram during these 'otter related' threads, and these last two are no exception. Egos get bruised, 'my way or no way' comes into play, exception is taken...bla, bla, bla. We all get silly at times. Like you, I occasionally get 'hate mail', despite never deliberately insulting anyone. The fact is, if you are known to have a certain point of view, those with opposing views seem to actively search anything you say to find something, however obscure, to take exception to. You have only to state your views after their initial post...mayhem ensues :D

Not sure myself what the way forward is on such threads, much less the healing of our rivers. As you say Steve, we are condemned roundly by so called 'greens' or 'conservation groups' as being 'parias', not 'politically correct' or 'cruel relics from a bygone age'. The very best, the kindest description anglers are likely to get is from the average, non angling joe public....which is 'eccentric weirdos', or something similar :D

A doomsayer? no Steve, merely a realist. Batten the hatches chap, more storms coming :D
 
Ally with the pro fox hunting group is a dreadful idea! I kind of see some connection, albeit very slim, last time I went fishing I don't recall wanting to see what I caught getting ripped to pieces by a pack of dogs! But as the otter issue shows people are far more concerned about mammals than fish. You can forget any public support if we side with them that's for sure.
 
Are you serious steve? An Anglers alignment with fox hunting? That's about the stupidest suggestion I have ever read on this forum. Lets all shoot ourselves in the foot. Well done new heights
 
Graham Young;149647 said:
More than we'd get if allied with fox hunters! Granted we don't get much if any support from the public, but if we're seen as allied with conservation groups we'd get a lot more support.
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Cant agree with that Rhys, anglers already carry out conservation work and get no recognition from the none angling public, they haven't a clue about what goes on, how many times has this work been on TV? perhaps if it was publicised more we may get recognition for some of the things anglers do but who is to do it and who is to get our national broadcaster to stop being anti angling

The good is never mentioned just the bad side of things that we are blamed for such as swan deaths, something anglers just rolled over and accepted.
 
Most of the public think anglers are just a bunch of harmless eccentrics who sit motionless for hours in the rain . However if we started to ally with other field sports as they used to be called , public views of angling would become much more polarised and I think negative , i.e. those fishermen are no better than those who kill and chase things for fun . As for all this class tosh . Is our society really class based anymore ? I don't think so .What talks is money , where you got it from is irrelevant .If you want to fish on the expensive beats I don't think what public school you went to , or which regiment you were in matters anymore , it's how much wad you have , as I say money talks and can buy you exclusivity
 
Does shooting have a bad name with the public - do they see it as cruel - not in my view. So why fishing? The problem re perception of coarse fishing , including my missus, is why do you go try and catch something, kiss it and put it back.. they get game and sea fishing as it means food, as of course does shooting.
 
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