Winter/ Floodwater tactics

[Paul Richardson]

How do your results in winter compare with other anglers fishing the same stretches Paul?

Mmmm - good question
A good friend of mine ( who only fishes for barbel )did a full winter and he struggled but it did come good the closing weeks of the season
I lack his discipline and go after chub /pike as my time is limited and I tend to hedge my bets
Plus there are clonking chub to be had when conditions allow
But the fact it beats me every season is a weird motivator

 

[Paul Richardson]

Is that down to there perhaps being more barbel in the Swale then, than there is in the Nene now?

Assuming fish populations being equal, it’s not unreasonable to assume a northern spate river is likely to be harder in winter than a lowland midlands rivers is it? Thinking about it, the Swale must be getting close to the northern limit of barbel distribution in Northern Europe?

That is a great excuse Joe - I love it
But you are right - we can see +5m of cold water from Swaledale in a relatively narrow stretch at the height of a spate flood
That’s a lot of water and I do wonder what effect it has on dispersing the fish ? If at all?
At what point do the barbel think “ screw this I’m going with the flow and see where it takes me “
Re stocking levels I think it’s as healthy as any river at the moment with the usual challenges inc furry ones

 

[Chris Allcock]

Il fish in all conditions to be perfectly honest. When I was a ground worker ( very sad and depressing times indeed ) we would get rained off when the weather was extreme. I'd get home and load up for barbel fishing. I've fished in the rain, snow, baking hot conditions and caught. I fished a field on the middle severn i couldn't get down to main river because the river had come up that much, and again... caught. I used to get up at 3am and drive down to Holt Fleet or pretty much anywhere where I could barbel fish mainly the Severn and the Avon.
I'm absolutely mad for it.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Is that down to there perhaps being more barbel in the Swale then, than there is in the Nene now?

Assuming fish populations being equal, it’s not unreasonable to assume a northern spate river is likely to be harder in winter than a lowland midlands rivers is it? Thinking about it, the Swale must be getting close to the northern limit of barbel distribution in Northern Europe?

Yeah the swale had loads more barbel in it.
A lot more than the nene does.
Dunno what it’s like nowadays but there was plenty of them 20-25 years ago when I was fishing it.
I used to live on its doorstep at Morton and fish it practically most evenings before kids, southern move etc

 

[Paul Richardson]

Appreciate all the comments.
There are fish to be caught, that's why it is frustrating. Joes point about Northern distribution is interesting. There are a few in the Tees and possibly even the Wear a bit further North but I think these are the exception to the rule and very scarce. I guess it's not unreasonable to assume that these Northern fish might behave slightly differently to their Southern cousins.
Regardless they will need to feed at some point, so if tactics are solid then right place, right time applies which I'll have to work on. For sure the end of season fish are fat as butter so they've been munching on something all winter.
Thinking back when we did get to fish a full winter, there was a distinct feeding spell associated with moon phases and it was short but too much of a coincidence that my fishing partner would phone me and say " get in a peg" if I was roving about so I would have a bait in the water as the moon was overhead. Don't ask me the science but it worked..The number of times we would both get bites within minutes of each other in this phase was spooky - nothing before or after.
And that might also be part of it. Getting into a rhythm for winter fishing. I'm struggling to recall the last season when I got to fish every month, so built up a picture of the seasonal nuances. Hopefully this year.
This summer fish have come out all through the day in all conditions, not so much in the 'magic hour' or into dark when chub proliferate, so it most probably is a case of file away summer habits / tactics and get a winter head on.

 

[Paul Bullinger]

Sometimes tactics are determined by circumstances. A barbel fishing friend of mine finds it difficult to lug loads of gear down to the river. Nowadays every session is a "lightweight" roving one. Just the essentials. But here's the odd thing, he uses a bomb, 18" hook link to size 10 hair with single halibut pellet. No PVA bag, no swimfeeder (can't carry groundbait to river) and minimal freebies.
He rarely blanks. I have witnessed him using this method on a flooded Wye where you would think the barbel would struggle to find a single pellet amongst all the debris and coloured water. He caught 7 barbel that day and lost as many. I was chucking in large swimfeeders full of smelly groundbait to "lure" them in and caught 2 chub. I would be interested to hear any theories as to how his tactic can possibly work? I've been wondering for years!!!

 

[Terry Simner]

Sometimes tactics are determined by circumstances. A barbel fishing friend of mine finds it difficult to lug loads of gear down to the river. Nowadays every session is a "lightweight" roving one. Just the essentials. But here's the odd thing, he uses a bomb, 18" hook link to size 10 hair with single halibut pellet. No PVA bag, no swimfeeder (can't carry groundbait to river) and minimal freebies.
He rarely blanks. I have witnessed him using this method on a flooded Wye where you would think the barbel would struggle to find a single pellet amongst all the debris and coloured water. He caught 7 barbel that day and lost as many. I was chucking in large swimfeeders full of smelly groundbait to "lure" them in and caught 2 chub. I would be interested to hear any theories as to how his tactic can possibly work? I've been wondering for years!!!

I think that says a lot about winter/flood fishing ...in the summer it's often/usually 2 rods, plenty of feed ... it's 'bring the fish to you'. In floods/winter (when the barbel are maybe holed up/ not moving about so much) it's much more 'find the fish' for me. I tend to fish 4-8 swims in 3-4 hours when the river's up and coloured, which as a bonus keeps you warm and adds to the expectation . My gear weighs 14lbs total, excluding (smelly) baits.

 

[Ian Sewter]

I think one of the things that makes fishing fascinating is all the differences and contradictions! And then of course we argue from our experience when someone else's experience is different! I am always amazed when match anglers produce similar weights from adjoining pegs on different tactics!

I have been amazed how barbel can detect one single pellet even in a flood - but they can. Although barbel can be induced to feed by the splash of a feeder or PVA bag some are spooked by it or the introduction of substantial quantities of bait and actually ignore or swim away from big beds of feed. In this case, like carp, a single hookbait can be taken because it does not appear threatening.

The other tactic your friend uses is moving swims and thereby finding a barbel willing to feed. I think it was Len Arbery who said the most effective method above all others on his water was to change swims. Sometimes we build a swim and wait them out but sometimes its more effective to try different swims and put a single bait in front of a (feeding) fish. Think lure fishing for perch and sometimes anglers travel miles and try many good looking swims before locating them.

So your friend is using two very effective barbel catching techniques - roving and single hookbaits.

 

[Paul Bullinger]

I think one of the things that makes fishing fascinating is all the differences and contradictions! And then of course we argue from our experience when someone else's experience is different! I am always amazed when match anglers produce similar weights from adjoining pegs on different tactics!

I have been amazed how barbel can detect one single pellet even in a flood - but they can. Although barbel can be induced to feed by the splash of a feeder or PVA bag some are spooked by it or the introduction of substantial quantities of bait and actually ignore or swim away from big beds of feed. In this case, like carp, a single hookbait can be taken because it does not appear threatening.

The other tactic your friend uses is moving swims and thereby finding a barbel willing to feed. I think it was Len Arbery who said the most effective method above all others on his water was to change swims. Sometimes we build a swim and wait them out but sometimes its more effective to try different swims and put a single bait in front of a (feeding) fish. Think lure fishing for perch and sometimes anglers travel miles and try many good looking swims before locating them.

So your friend is using two very effective barbel catching techniques - roving and single hookbaits.

Hi Ian,
Very interesting. Thank you. Still very frustrating when fishing near him!!!!

 

[Chris Guy]

I reckon you've nailed it there Paul, sounds like you're doing all that the books say to do. But it's never going to be easy, especially when water temps drop rapidly, the barbel shoal up, and their metabolism slows. I'd say carry on with what you're doing now but with an added emphasis on 'Location, location, location'....and hope for the best.

And keep mobile. Don't plug away in one swim, hoping they turn up. 30 minutes on one spot is enough, if you're not getting any enquiries.

 

[Alex Gowney]

Usually, expectations in winter barbel fishing all hinge on the condition of the river but they need to be realistic. We all know that a high coloured river with the right temperature should equal barbel bites providing you can locate them. However, difficulties can arise when the weather is warm and wet for a prolonged spell as conditions appear perfect for days on end. We then find that the advantage of the conditions has gone as the fish will not feed around the clock indefinitely. This is when you need to try and establish feeding times exactly the same as you would have to in more regular conditions. High, warm water does not always guarantee feeding barbel, but normally getting there at the start of such conditions does. I always found the Warks Avon to fish brilliantly on a rising river, summer or winter. Nowadays of course, there is the added problem of far fewer fish and much harder location.

 

[Keith Humphreys]

Usually, expectations in winter barbel fishing all hinge on the condition of the river but they need to be realistic. We all know that a high coloured river with the right temperature should equal barbel bites providing you can locate them. However, difficulties can arise when the weather is warm and wet for a prolonged spell as conditions appear perfect for days on end. We then find that the advantage of the conditions has gone as the fish will not feed around the clock indefinitely. This is when you need to try and establish feeding times exactly the same as you would have to in more regular conditions. High, warm water does not always guarantee feeding barbel, but normally getting there at the start of such conditions does. I always found the Warks Avon to fish brilliantly on a rising river, summer or winter. Nowadays of course, there is the added problem of far fewer fish and much harder location.

And yet in contrast to your experience Alex, most regulars on the Dorset Stour would tell you that it rarely fishes well on a rising river but fishes well once it has levelled off, that said, the tidal is not as much effected by a rising river as the tide raises the level naturally twice a day which raises another "Bone of Contention". Do you fish a falling or rising tide? I know many who prefer one or the other but personally, if the river is carrying extra water anyway I am not bothered which way it is as I have had fish on both.
one thing for sure, that's what makes the wonderful game so interesting and keeps us scratching our heads

 

[Richard Isaacs]

And keep mobile. Don't plug away in one swim, hoping they turn up. 30 minutes on one spot is enough, if you're not getting any enquiries.

Depends on the time of year for me. I’ve sat it out in a swim for a few hours just knowing there’s something in there but when it’s cold they take their time to respond. It’s paid off a few times to stick with it

 

[Alex Gowney]

Depends on the time of year for me. I’ve sat it out in a swim for a few hours just knowing there’s something in there but when it’s cold they take their time to respond. It’s paid off a few times to stick with it

I think this is where experience and familiarity with your water comes in. I'm sure we've all gone for a barbel session, summer or winter, maybe baited a few swims with some free offerings and moved about. But always wondering, are the barbel coming into a swim just as you are moving? And when you return will they have also moved on? Is it possible, without visual confirmation, for us and the barbel to keep missing each other? Yet again we come down to river populations. With a decent head of fish you will eventually meet up in the same swim. In the few times I have been barbel fishing in the last few years I often sit there wondering if I am even within two hundred yards of a barbel. Not great for confidence whatever approach you are using.

 

[Stephen Crowhurst]

And yet in contrast to your experience Alex, most regulars on the Dorset Stour would tell you that it rarely fishes well on a rising river but fishes well once it has levelled off, that said, the tidal is not as much effected by a rising river as the tide raises the level naturally twice a day which raises another "Bone of Contention". Do you fish a falling or rising tide? I know many who prefer one or the other but personally, if the river is carrying extra water anyway I am not bothered which way it is as I have had fish on both.
one thing for sure, that's what makes the wonderful game so interesting and keeps us scratching our heads

So they say; Avon on the Rise, Stour on the fall.

 

[Graham Elliott]

So they say; Avon on the Rise, Stour on the fall.

Both be falling later this week for me then Stephen

 

[Chris Guy]

Depends on the time of year for me. I’ve sat it out in a swim for a few hours just knowing there’s something in there but when it’s cold they take their time to respond. It’s paid off a few times to stick with it

Different matter if you KNOW they're in there.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Different matter if you KNOW they're in there.

I think it’s more a case of the barbels willingness to move and exert energy.
In colder months this takes much longer and chucking in a swim every 30 mins to an hour I think in some cases is missed opportunities. In winter I like to give em chance to have a go.
I think sometimes we can be too mobile and quick to make the assumption that nothing is feeding as you’ve covered 2 miles of river.
In a full winters day from dawn till dusk I’d probably fish 2-3 pegs but they’d be pegs that draw me right in and look very good for a bite.

 

[Chris Guy]

I think it’s more a case of the barbels willingness to move and exert energy.
In colder months this takes much longer and chucking in a swim every 30 mins to an hour I think in some cases is missed opportunities. In winter I like to give em chance to have a go.
I think sometimes we can be too mobile and quick to make the assumption that nothing is feeding as you’ve covered 2 miles of river.
In a full winters day from dawn till dusk I’d probably fish 2-3 pegs but they’d be pegs that draw me right in and look very good for a bite.

Of course it's going to be conditions

 

[Chris Guy]

Of course it's going to be conditions led, but I'm also taking into consideration that the stock of barbel in the Ouse is very low. So there may only be two or three fish in half a mile of river.