Colin Bridger
Senior Member
I agree with Julian Griffiths and NeilSmart. I have benn doing quite well recently using one 25 mm pellet on a grinner lasoo with a fairly short hair to a size 8 hook, and no feed at all.
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Winter Barbel
- Thread starter Craig Wood
- Start date
Ray Walton
Senior Member
One of the most important factors to consider is what the 'Water' Temperature is, linked to the month of the year in Winter. The 'Air' Temperature can become unimportant and a secondary factor... if the water temperature is much higher at the time which can be the case. There are so many combinations of water temp/Air temp/air pressure/water colour/water level/flow rate etc to consider determining whether your chances of catching are good or bad. When you learn the best combinations by experience, then you can target the best times to go with more confidence and ignore the less productive times. However, you have to do the hard work first and fish in every condition to gain the knowledge to eventually make it work to your advantage.
In my opinion, barbel do not have to feed every day and can lay up for long periods and live off their body fat for weeks or longer, especially if they have been previously been fattened up on HNV baits and oiled pellets prior to the cold spells...Ray
Below is an old condensed graph which incorporates a lot of the conditions mentioned above You will have to scroll up down and across to link the conditions/temps/ catches etc.
In my opinion, barbel do not have to feed every day and can lay up for long periods and live off their body fat for weeks or longer, especially if they have been previously been fattened up on HNV baits and oiled pellets prior to the cold spells...Ray
Below is an old condensed graph which incorporates a lot of the conditions mentioned above You will have to scroll up down and across to link the conditions/temps/ catches etc.
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Steve Roffey
Senior Member
I don't change my bait size at all for winter, I use 8 or 10mm pellets throughout the year but reduce feed in the winter to a small PVA stocking nicked on the hook rather than using a big feeder. Also tend to hedge my bets by fishing one rod with maggot feeder, though most of my winter barbel still come to the pellet.
Robin Bowes
Senior Member
Ray,
That's a fantastic graph. What did you deduce from it?
Looking at it myself, I can't see any particular correlation between conditions and catches, other than it slows down in the colder months. And maybe that you caught more in the colder months when the river is up and coloured.
I'd be interested to learn your thoughts.
R.
Ray Walton
Senior Member
Hi Robin....I started writing to give you a simple answer, but there are so many combination factors that it would take a very long time.
I logged every individual barbel capture (1200 barbel) on the bank including time, bait, method, swim, fish ID/condition/water level/air and water temps etc etc and then drew up the basic graphs in the close season of each year from 1983/4 - 1986/7.
What I learned by doing this for over 6 years became 'instinctive' to me in my future years in when to go out and when not too. Simply speaking, you can venture out in the very cold snow like conditions and you may catch one, but in my opinion, the chances of a single bite are slim even if you covered a hundred barbel in different swims. However, cold autumn conditions Oct – Nov, were generally a lot harder than December onwards. This is when the water temps drop from the higher summer temps and the barbel have to endure a period of acclimatisation. So there is a ‘switch off’ point at some stage. Again, once the barbel have acclimatised to the lower water temps then there is a lower ‘switch on’ point when the barbel will become active again, usually with a rise in the water temp caused by a low pressure area coming in from the South or West with some moist air or rain.
If the water temp rises way over the first acclimatisation point, they will then ‘switch off’ again and have to acclimatise back to the warmer water temp. That is why sometimes conditions can look perfect in winter with rising temps and water levels after a cold period, but if are not on the bank at the 'switch on' point, then you can miss the prime time (which might only be for a short period of time) before they 'switch off' again.
Again, in my opinion, every fish is an individual and have differing habits including feeding, but there is definitely the odd ‘cold feeder’ which can be re-captured when others don’t seem to feed in cold conditions, but they are not the majority of the population and not necessarily the ‘big mothers’ as was mentioned earlier.
Having done all my groundwork and experimenting on the Royalty, it worked very well when I moved on to the Bristol Avon and then the Gt. Ouse with some other excellent barbel anglers such as Guy, Stuart, Trefor and others, where there was a lower population of barbel, but generally much bigger kippers.
If you want to draw up some simple questions regarding the graph, I will be glad to answer from my subconscious...Best Regards...Ray
I logged every individual barbel capture (1200 barbel) on the bank including time, bait, method, swim, fish ID/condition/water level/air and water temps etc etc and then drew up the basic graphs in the close season of each year from 1983/4 - 1986/7.
What I learned by doing this for over 6 years became 'instinctive' to me in my future years in when to go out and when not too. Simply speaking, you can venture out in the very cold snow like conditions and you may catch one, but in my opinion, the chances of a single bite are slim even if you covered a hundred barbel in different swims. However, cold autumn conditions Oct – Nov, were generally a lot harder than December onwards. This is when the water temps drop from the higher summer temps and the barbel have to endure a period of acclimatisation. So there is a ‘switch off’ point at some stage. Again, once the barbel have acclimatised to the lower water temps then there is a lower ‘switch on’ point when the barbel will become active again, usually with a rise in the water temp caused by a low pressure area coming in from the South or West with some moist air or rain.
If the water temp rises way over the first acclimatisation point, they will then ‘switch off’ again and have to acclimatise back to the warmer water temp. That is why sometimes conditions can look perfect in winter with rising temps and water levels after a cold period, but if are not on the bank at the 'switch on' point, then you can miss the prime time (which might only be for a short period of time) before they 'switch off' again.
Again, in my opinion, every fish is an individual and have differing habits including feeding, but there is definitely the odd ‘cold feeder’ which can be re-captured when others don’t seem to feed in cold conditions, but they are not the majority of the population and not necessarily the ‘big mothers’ as was mentioned earlier.
Having done all my groundwork and experimenting on the Royalty, it worked very well when I moved on to the Bristol Avon and then the Gt. Ouse with some other excellent barbel anglers such as Guy, Stuart, Trefor and others, where there was a lower population of barbel, but generally much bigger kippers.
If you want to draw up some simple questions regarding the graph, I will be glad to answer from my subconscious...Best Regards...Ray
David Will
Senior Member
The opener to this thread suprised me a bit. When I first fished for Barbel - early eighties, I started in November and as Keith Speer says stopped because the season ran out.On and off that has been the pattern for the last 30 years.Summer for me has never felt right to fish for them. So thats 30 years of winter Barbelling. We Carp fished long before this in winter and then you could catch them in the right conditions. Not so easy now, especially on busy waters.So all in all its nothing new to fish for Carp and Barbel in winter. One thing we did not do though was to fish for Barbel whatever the conditions as some do now,life is too short to miss out on Pike, Grayling, Chub etc which do are a more realistic prospect in very cold conditions. The chap who can't get on with maggots should keep trying, you are missing out.
Jim Foxall
Senior Member
The chap who can't get on with maggots will give them an extensive bash. Interestingly enough, I don't know of anyone on my local catching on maggots but that might be because we are not using them. They are worth another shot before giving up on them. Anyone tried maggot rings?
Jim Foxall
Senior Member
Barbel graphical data
Ray, that is a superb piece of research. A scientific approach will always lead to improved catches and this must be reflected in your catch rate. Many thanks for sharing your information with us.
Ray, that is a superb piece of research. A scientific approach will always lead to improved catches and this must be reflected in your catch rate. Many thanks for sharing your information with us.
Jamie Armitage
Senior Member
This is why forums are so good!
Really good reading Ray very interesting!!
Last winter i think i wasted so much time being on the bank when it was too cold! I was thinking HE WHO DARES!! but alot of the time i didnt...
cheers jamie
Really good reading Ray very interesting!!
Last winter i think i wasted so much time being on the bank when it was too cold! I was thinking HE WHO DARES!! but alot of the time i didnt...
cheers jamie
Tom Marshall
Senior Member
I use them to attach my pva bags to my clip link swivel!
I can’t seem to get on with them when using maggots.
Tom.
Alex Compton
Member
Hello all, One of my first posts as a new BFW member.
I also belive that large barbel have to feed throughout the winter months as I will continue to fish for them. It's interesting to read about everyones tactics. I will probably continue to rove around as I feel most confident covering as much river as poss and presenting baits close to barbel. I will look into particle roving with maggotts if the rivers get clear.
One the other hand maybe static fishing maybe better for long runs and varied swims.
As an Ecology student I have been studying energy cost and benefit of foraging (getting food) in animals which includes distances foraged and size of food taken for energy spent. some of this I think can be applied to fishing !
Alex
I also belive that large barbel have to feed throughout the winter months as I will continue to fish for them. It's interesting to read about everyones tactics. I will probably continue to rove around as I feel most confident covering as much river as poss and presenting baits close to barbel. I will look into particle roving with maggotts if the rivers get clear.
One the other hand maybe static fishing maybe better for long runs and varied swims.
As an Ecology student I have been studying energy cost and benefit of foraging (getting food) in animals which includes distances foraged and size of food taken for energy spent. some of this I think can be applied to fishing !
Alex
Geoff Blakesley
Senior Member
Crushed maggots?- must be fish other than barbel surely? Mostly 3ft twitches up 'ere! how will you extrapolate on distance foraging -size of bait alex as to fishing techniques?
geoff
geoff
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Alex Compton
Member
Hi Geoff,
I think the foraging ties in with what has been written about winter techniques before i.e small better in low temperatures/clear water, big baits in high/colured warm water , but im wondering whether its better to say static or rove with small baits because fish are not foraging as much in winter ? Ive read that fish to come up to feeders with the static feeder/maggott approach but is this better than baitdropping maggotts in several swims.
cheers
Alex
I think the foraging ties in with what has been written about winter techniques before i.e small better in low temperatures/clear water, big baits in high/colured warm water , but im wondering whether its better to say static or rove with small baits because fish are not foraging as much in winter ? Ive read that fish to come up to feeders with the static feeder/maggott approach but is this better than baitdropping maggotts in several swims.
cheers
Alex
Stephen Scaysbrook
Senior Member
Sorry double post
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Stephen Scaysbrook
Senior Member
. Interestingly enough, I don't know of anyone on my local catching on maggots but that might be because we are not using them.
Jim I'm fishing with maggots on your local but not catching on them (YET) But I won't be giving up on the method.
Jim I'm fishing with maggots on your local but not catching on them (YET) But I won't be giving up on the method.
Jeff Edisbury
Senior Member
Hi all,
Interesting stuff Ray, especially the steep rise to a higher temperature switching them off! Never thought of that. Still, it gives me another excuse for blanking in "perfect conditions". As regards the best methods, i'm still not sure (lack of experience showing through, again). As you are aware, I've had most of my winter barbel on single big pellets 17/22mm, but use no freebies at all after October.................. and very few before October for that matter. I know about your issues with pellet and 90% agree with you but, it is the use/misuse of said pellets that is the issue. Sadly, wether due to ignorance or inexperience I saw a young kid literally "filling it in" the other Saturday on the Royalty. I did suggest that he may wish to take up carp fishing if that was what he wanted to do but I don't think he got the message. Now onto results or lack of_ certainly, more fish get caught rolling meat than using pellet but (on the Royalty) they are generally the smaller fish as the bigger ones have been hammered on the method. That is not to say that the bigger fish can't be caught on rolling meat but you have to be VERY good at it and clearly, my results would suggest that my presentation isn't that good and I have had mainly 5-7lb fish whilst rolling so far. I do intend to presevere with it though. A single pellet/paste bait is too good to turn down by the fish. For a start, they don't have to chase after it as they do with meat. I've tried maggots (feeder) but not done any good but never tried trotting as the river Avon is generally going through too fast/too coloured in the winter?
Confused,
Regards
Jeff
Interesting stuff Ray, especially the steep rise to a higher temperature switching them off! Never thought of that. Still, it gives me another excuse for blanking in "perfect conditions". As regards the best methods, i'm still not sure (lack of experience showing through, again). As you are aware, I've had most of my winter barbel on single big pellets 17/22mm, but use no freebies at all after October.................. and very few before October for that matter. I know about your issues with pellet and 90% agree with you but, it is the use/misuse of said pellets that is the issue. Sadly, wether due to ignorance or inexperience I saw a young kid literally "filling it in" the other Saturday on the Royalty. I did suggest that he may wish to take up carp fishing if that was what he wanted to do but I don't think he got the message. Now onto results or lack of_ certainly, more fish get caught rolling meat than using pellet but (on the Royalty) they are generally the smaller fish as the bigger ones have been hammered on the method. That is not to say that the bigger fish can't be caught on rolling meat but you have to be VERY good at it and clearly, my results would suggest that my presentation isn't that good and I have had mainly 5-7lb fish whilst rolling so far. I do intend to presevere with it though. A single pellet/paste bait is too good to turn down by the fish. For a start, they don't have to chase after it as they do with meat. I've tried maggots (feeder) but not done any good but never tried trotting as the river Avon is generally going through too fast/too coloured in the winter?
Confused,
Regards
Jeff
Ray Walton
Senior Member
Jeff Quote: "For a start, they don't have to chase after it as they do with meat."
This is not the case, especially in winter.
The barbel will be out there in the weed cover or other (at home) and reluctant to move in cold water conditions. The bait will be coming down in the flow hopefully to where the fish is laying up and will generally land on its doorstep if the presentation is ok. Here, if the barbel is alert and wants it, all it has to do move a few inches either side and put its mouth over the bait to stop it. However, detecting the bite/stop can be difficult if you don't know what you’re looking for, as it is just the bait stopping, similar to it getting caught up on a snag/weed. In this situation, the barbel does not usually ‘bolt’ off as many will be accustomed too as the barbel is already at home in its sanctuary. The bite/stop can be as little as a tiny tap registered through the line or rod tip or even less if you are fishing with excess slack line. The simple stopping of the bait can be the main indicator itself, but you have to instantly determine which is which, snagged or barbel, before the barbel susses and lifts off.
The chasing of the bait by barbel occurs mainly in warmer water temperatures when they are more active and competing for food items.
The catching of smaller barbel (5-7lb) on the method is quite common, but this does seem to be a cyclic period when it seems only the smaller fish feed and not the big ones. On other occasions, I have caught all 9+ - doubles and lumps over a short period with no small ones (5-7lb) showing at all. Again it could be a shoaling thing, but I think it could be down to something else on why this happens....Ray
This is not the case, especially in winter.
The barbel will be out there in the weed cover or other (at home) and reluctant to move in cold water conditions. The bait will be coming down in the flow hopefully to where the fish is laying up and will generally land on its doorstep if the presentation is ok. Here, if the barbel is alert and wants it, all it has to do move a few inches either side and put its mouth over the bait to stop it. However, detecting the bite/stop can be difficult if you don't know what you’re looking for, as it is just the bait stopping, similar to it getting caught up on a snag/weed. In this situation, the barbel does not usually ‘bolt’ off as many will be accustomed too as the barbel is already at home in its sanctuary. The bite/stop can be as little as a tiny tap registered through the line or rod tip or even less if you are fishing with excess slack line. The simple stopping of the bait can be the main indicator itself, but you have to instantly determine which is which, snagged or barbel, before the barbel susses and lifts off.
The chasing of the bait by barbel occurs mainly in warmer water temperatures when they are more active and competing for food items.
The catching of smaller barbel (5-7lb) on the method is quite common, but this does seem to be a cyclic period when it seems only the smaller fish feed and not the big ones. On other occasions, I have caught all 9+ - doubles and lumps over a short period with no small ones (5-7lb) showing at all. Again it could be a shoaling thing, but I think it could be down to something else on why this happens....Ray
Robin Bowes
Senior Member
Heh, yes - there are a lot of stats there.
I think you've probably answered my main query regarding switching off when temperature rises.
I shall continue to study your graph and will get back if I have further questions.
Thanks - great stuff!
R.
David Will
Senior Member
Maggots - no maggot clips , ridiculous things, a very strong size 16 with three maggots, Drennan Super Spade with 10-12lb hooklength braid works.The bites are very obvious, anything else is not a Barbel. Thing with maggots is it is all about feeding them on a continuous little but often basis in winter. A small blockend in poor conditions or a big one in better conditions but it must be re cast regularly.The feeder should just hold bottom which is why Feederlinks from Drennan were popular as you could add SSGs where necessary.I see that the heavy Drennan oval feeders are recommended by others but we never needed the bolt effect of a big feeder, it is better to use as light a feeder as possible as you should be casting regularly and four ounces of feeder in a small river aint going to work.Thames Trent Severn may be different story. If you are getting bites from smaller species not a problem because the Barbel will simply bully them out of the way. On the Kennet years ago the minnows were a bite indicator, when they stopped pestering the bait that was the signal to concentrate a little more as a Barbel was on the cards. A bit like today and Crayfish.Another thing that occurs to me was that we caught very few Chub on the Super Spade/braid probably because they are not as daft as Barbel.The braid back in the eighties was Gammabraid but I reckon todays Kryston Supernova 12lb is better.Lastly the only time I would bother with a quiver tip for Barbel is when maggot fishing and that is only so I can see what is going on in the swim.
Simon King
Senior Member
I find the opposite and I mostly fish a small river, the Lea. Bolt-rigged feeder (1oz or 2oz), 10lb fluoro hooklink, single maggot. Avon rod. No mistaking the "twitch"! Strong size 16 for sure.
The only difference being the link is 6ft long in Summer (but the feed is bait-dropped, not feedered) and 4-6 inches in Winter. The Winter set-up was originally used because it was so "killing" a method for big chub, but we caught so many good barbel on it that I wouldn't choose between its effectiveness for either species.
There is another "wrinkle" or two to this rig we use, in relation to hooking the chub, but I'm not giving everything away.
