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What's your honest assessment?

Paul Richardson said:
I like to see an otter, as I do a fox or a badger but I really do think that there needs to be some sensible management of all these animals.
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To what benefit? Ours? Manipulating the world for our own benefit is why we're left with dire situations on our rivers, not to mention the rest of the planet.
With the possible exception of cormorants, there should be enough fish in our waters to support the predators. Cormorants are only here because we've raped their usual feeding grounds. Signals again our doing.
I wonder if we hadn't decimated otter numbers, and they had continued to thrive all this time, whether we would still be using them as a scapegoat?
 
Interesting article in the Observer yesterday about UK predators starting to thrive except for foxes (rabbit virus) and badgers. Current estimate 11000 otters but no comparative data. Article ended noting anglers’ concerns. Without our interference ecosystems over time reach a balance, unfortunately when it comes to rivers or anywhere really we have no idea what this balance actually is, so we interfere and rarely for the betterment.Otters are no doubt on the up after being almost wiped out, with dwindling food stocks they need to adapt and it seems like foxes they are able to do this. As for the Wye have a read of the latest Wye and Usk coarse report where otter impact on pike is highlighted.
 
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Paul Richardson said:
I like to see an otter, as I do a fox or a badger but I really do think that there needs to be some sensible management of all these animals.
Click to expand...

To what benefit? Ours? Manipulating the world for our own benefit is why we're left with dire situations on our rivers, not to mention the rest of the planet.
With the possible exception of cormorants, there should be enough fish in our waters to support the predators. Cormorants are only here because we've raped their usual feeding grounds. Signals, again our doing.
I wonder if we hadn't decimated otter numbers, and they had continued to thrive all this time, whether we would still be seeing them as the problem? I think it's bad timing more than anything, their numbers have increased at a time when so many other factors have screwed up the whole system.
 
Paul Dowgill said:
Interesting article in the Observer yesterday about UK predators starting to thrive except for foxes (rabbit virus) and badgers. Current estimate 11000 otters but no comparative data. Article ended noting anglers’ concerns. Without our interference ecosystems over time reach a balance, unfortunately when it comes to rivers or anywhere really we have no idea what this balance actually is, so we interfere and rarely for the betterment.Otters are no doubt on the up after being almost wiped out, with dwindling food stocks they need to adapt and it seems like foxes they are able to do this. As for the Wye have a read of the latest Wye and Usk coarse report where otter impact on pike is highlighted.
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Well this is why I can't quite believe how the parties responsible for releasing the numbers of otters, didn't 'think' about conducting an accurate assessment of the impacts an apex predator will have throughout the nations waterways. Including the various tributaries.

I wish that our so called Anglers Trust would stand up for us, & push to sue responsible party/parties involved on our behalf, surly they'd have a case?

Same for the RSPB, I cannot be the only one that's noticed a very steep decline in the numbers of water birds on our rivers?

I wonder If it'll be a good thing to contact Anglers Trust or not?
 
Well deep down that's exactly what I think, but by acting as a single voice sweet f all will get done, if more people voiced up then it carries more weight. My anarchist side to my mind would have us all boycott the licence fee until something was addressed, but again we (me included) will sit on our backsides and just keep moaning on here until something changes.
I was just enquiring whether it would help....but I know that I just made myself look more stupid than normal!
But I would like to do something!
 
Hi men,

I went my own route , and personally contacted the EA , talking personally to a couple of "reps" . The parting shot when i raised the obviously way the Windrush had been smashed by otters who went from shy creatures , to rolling around in the locks on the Thames , and blatent daytime spotting , by saying , and i quote the top boy "you will have to find other specimens to fish for" .

I will be long dust in the ground when 3 things happen
1 , Luton Town have a new ground
2, Luton Town win another major cup or get into the premiership
3, the rivers i fished with Sue hold the barbel we used to fish for in enough numbers for my grandchildren to enjoy as we did .

Sad , Hatter
 
Julian Griffiths said:
Well deep down that's exactly what I think, but by acting as a single voice sweet f all will get done, if more people voiced up then it carries more weight. My anarchist side to my mind would have us all boycott the licence fee until something was addressed, but again we (me included) will sit on our backsides and just keep moaning on here until something changes.
I was just enquiring whether it would help....but I know that I just made myself look more stupid than normal!
But I would like to do something!
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It's a noble thought Julian, and respect for that but... the guy I spoke to at Anglers' Trust seemed incredulous over my assertion that otters were (even might be) a problem, and that I was cancelling my AT membership due to their lack of recognition of such a problem. I must say the guy was interested to hear what I had to say, but it all seemed like news to him. He seemed genuinely surprised that an angler/any angler might have a problem with (sweet looking) otters. I could have been talking to my granny ... interested, but totally uninformed.
 
Mark Anderson said:
Hi men,

I went my own route , and personally contacted the EA , talking personally to a couple of "reps" . The parting shot when i raised the obviously way the Windrush had been smashed by otters who went from shy creatures , to rolling around in the locks on the Thames , and blatent daytime spotting , by saying , and i quote the top boy "you will have to find other specimens to fish for" .

I will be long dust in the ground when 3 things happen
1 , Luton Town have a new ground
2, Luton Town win another major cup or get into the premiership
3, the rivers i fished with Sue hold the barbel we used to fish for in enough numbers for my grandchildren to enjoy as we did .

Sad , Hatter
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more chance of Luton achieving your dream for them, than anything happening about these otters.
I guess it's a case of trying to close the barn door after the horse has bolted, to coin a phrase.
 
Terry Simner said:
It's a noble thought Julian, and respect for that but... the guy I spoke to at Anglers' Trust seemed incredulous over my assertion that otters were (even might be) a problem, and that I was cancelling my AT membership due to their lack of recognition of such a problem. I must say the guy was interested to hear what I had to say, but it all seemed like news to him. He seemed genuinely surprised that an angler/any angler might have a problem with (sweet looking) otters. I could have been talking to my granny ... interested, but totally uninformed.
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The mind boggles mate!!!
 
Rhys Perry said:
Excuse the double post, hadn't finished the first one and didn't realise I'd posted it!
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I see your point Rhys and hard to argue with it
I'm a simple country guy and for many years I've seen first hand farmers/ landowners manage the land.Not mass slaughter but sensible and proportionate control.
That's all I'm saying. When apex predators are left to run amok, and political correctness overrides common sense it will most likely be too late when the light bulbs finally go on
I hope you never have to witness a grey seal marauding through your swim
It's only when it happens to you and you try and get some sense out of the 'experts' do you realise that it's FUBAR
 
Paul Richardson said:
I see your point Rhys and hard to argue with it
I'm a simple country guy and for many years I've seen first hand farmers/ landowners manage the land.Not mass slaughter but sensible and proportionate control.
That's all I'm saying. When apex predators are left to run amok, and political correctness overrides common sense it will most likely be too late when the light bulbs finally go on
I hope you never have to witness a grey seal marauding through your swim
It's only when it happens to you and you try and get some sense out of the 'experts' do you realise that it's FUBAR
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Grey Seals have been coming up rivers since the dawn if time, sorry but to moan about that will not put angling in a good light. Otters too are indigenous and I can't really see what we can do, my only hope is that numbers will thin out over time. It would be a ridiculous stance to complain about the natural ways of predation .....we might as well take up golf. Of course I regret the Otter effect, but that is just another problem we have to overcome. Barbel are excellent at establishing numbers, but the day we as anglers feel entitled to have Barbel in our river's purely to catch for our own pleasure is the day we lose our identity.
 
Paul Dowgill said:
Any suggestions as to how?
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Personally and I know others will disagree but I think strongly worded and information backed petition is the way forward. Not Like the recent one that attempt to answer the question but to force the environmental groups at large to answer the question. Obviously a very bare/rough start, but;
We the Angling community,
Have noted that the fish stocks have fallen within the last x years. This has been most pronounced on the following five/ten rivers. This assertion is based upon evidence of catch reports, which are available attatched.
We believe it is our duty as the guardians of Britain’s waterways to highlight that this environmental concern is going unnoticed and if current trends continue with no/the current remedial tasks applied we believe that by x date fish stocks, particularly of the following spiecies will be damaged beyond repair.
We urge those in charge to identify and resolve the factors that are endangering British aquatic wildlife and restore our waterways to be able to support the biomass and biodiversity that our waterways have the natural capability of.

Something like that, written by someone else, that can write properly :lol: supported by evidence and signed by a few 10xs of thousands of Angler’s would force attention. Hopefully as an environmental campaign it would get the support and backing of groups like the RSPB that hold more weight to support the cause.

IMO if you walk in prescribing the cause and demanding an action you won’t achieve much.
 
The real issue I feel is the unbalance of Otter to environment, the release was ill judged without any thinking as to just how quickly the Otter would spread, they are very successful breeders. Of course any legislation to reduce numbers would effectively prove these environmentalists got it wrong, however reducing numbers would not only benefit fish stocks and water bird numbers, but the Otter too.
Trouble is the Otter is the poster boy our very own Panda, that is why we have to chose our words carefully, of course culling is the best route, but would be unpalatable for the Enviromentals, the BS blurb steers clear of such rhetoric so in truth we are screwed.
Hunting with dogs, well forget that, sterilisation , no...road kill is possibly the only method.
I am a huge softie when it comes to animal welfare, but the African Elephant is now being considered ripe for culling, and to be used for pet food...just too many of them.
Good luck with that PR problem.
 
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