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What would you do in this scenario.

Iv only ever had 3 carp over 20 and none of them were over 21. Iv never had a river carp either so would be happy with a 1lb fish let alone a 20lber.
 
Neil Smart said:
Bit harsh, Lee was merely highlighting a 'moral' dilemma, if you just need to LOL remember we are talking Rivers here, not Carp puddles, it's a different scenario where some of the unwritten rules are still upheld.
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In this context, what are the unwritten rules are you alluding to Neil?
 
Neil Smart said:
But there is a difference, this fish was languishing at his feet, he did not 'stalk' it .
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I didn't take from Lee's description that the fish was languishing, far from it if it was getting his head down and feeding, and I've caught enough carp in the margins the years to know that a presenting a bait to a fish at close quarters without spooking it is a lot more difficult than it looks.

I think a lot of non-carp anglers underestimate just how difficult catching carp can be. Carp (proper carp not mud puddle carp) are a lot more clued-up than barbel in my experience.
 
I agree river carp are different gravy, the point here is Lee decided to not try for the fish, to him it didn't seem sporting I believe, and for that
respect. Good for him.
 
Neil Smart said:
Bit harsh, Lee was merely highlighting a 'moral' dilemma, if you just need to LOL remember we are talking Rivers here, not Carp puddles, it's a different scenario where some of the unwritten rules are still upheld.
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as normal your talking cobblers sunshine ! you havent got the foggiest idea of my angling past so dont make sarcastic assumptions
I loath the people that are so far up themselves that think their target species is superior to others I AM AN ANGLER !! I started fishing with my father trotting the river Thames at Teddington I went onto match fish catching things like bags of Dace and roach etc then went after big Perch then Barbel then Tench then Carp fished and now back to Barbel and Chub
IMHO no species is superior to the others they are just different !

we are all Anglers even if a few <edit> think they are superior
 
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Gerry Giles said:
as normal your talking cobblers sunshine ! you havent got the foggiest idea of my angling past so dont make sarcastic assumptions
I loath the people that are so far up themselves that think their target species is superior to others I AM AN ANGLER !! I started fishing with my father trotting the river Thames at Teddington I went onto match fish catching things like bags of Dace and roach etc then went after big Perch then Barbel then Tench then Carp fished and now back to Barbel and Chub
IMHO no species is superior to the others they are just different !

we are all Anglers even if a few twatts think they are superior
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Good God calm down, again the red mist gets the better of you.
OP posted a reasonable question and you demeaned by laughing at his choice to leave the carp be....take your own advice on board before you rant.
Leave off the abuse too, no need for that on here.
 
Neil Smart said:
Good God calm down, again the red mist gets the better of you.
OP posted a reasonable question and you demeaned by laughing at his choice to leave the carp be....take your own advice on board before you rant.
Leave off the abuse too, no need for that on here.
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OP can answer for himself too ! if you throw LEARN TO CATCH !
 
As for catching over the gallon of pellet... I blanked alongside everyone else on the stretch.. If the same thing happens next time.. I'll just film the carp and chuck for Barbel
 
To me, this does seem to be a valid ethical question, and also goes to the heart of the wants/needs questions that we pose ourselves (most often on a not fully conscious level i.e. we often don't have to deliberate over the question of whether we wish to go fishing or not - we arrive at a conclusion without too much conscious musing). We set ourselves our own rules (our ethics) based on what we see as 'right' or 'wrong' (our morals) Yes, these rules can give us some grief ...but they only become contentious when we express the view that others should have/abide by the same rules as us.
Ok, this case/issue in point is maybe a highly debatable one (we're debating it, so it must be :D ) ... therefore the issue is valid, but not truly contentious. It may be ethical dilemma, but it is posed as a question ('Is this right or wrong?'), not a value judgement on the action of others. Basically we all set ourselves 'rules on engagement' that may seem silly to others, and here's a couple of mine :
Foul hooking : If I hook a target species in anywhere but the mouth I do not count it, even if I saw the fish take the bait. No question, it doesn't count. That's clear-cut, but if it's on the outside of the mouth? Under the lip? An inch from the mouth? Then it's a dilemma (for me)
Fish 'value' : I tend to place a much higher value on fish caught by design, not accident. I get little joy from catching 2lb roach on double 12mm pellet on 12lb b/s ledger rig. Large pike are the same. The 'value' of a P.B. caught by accident? Now there's a dilemma for me :D
But I do still get pleasure from catching all those fish, caught accidentally or not, but tinged with some disappointment.

Angling, like many pastimes, is not on the face of it a rational activity. To many non-anglers is must seem balmy. But we set ourselves our own personal challenges. (e.g. my P.B's are based on which river, and by which method, and have to be caught by design). But it all comes down to (fulfillment of) our own personal wants and needs, and what rules we set for ourselves in achieving them. These rules go from the stringent (as some may say, in the case posed by Lee's OP?) to those of the 'Glory Hunter' (e.g. finding a massive dead eel in a Hampshire pool and claiming it as a National Record?) It's an ethical continuum. We all have our own goals, and we all have our own opinion on what is 'cheating' and what is 'fair'. There's very little right or wrong (moral/immoral) in this as it's almost entirely subjective. "To thine own self be true".
But what we all seek is pleasure.

Yeah, I'm sat here, bored, thinking "After sitting for 4 hours in constant rain yesterday, with it black outside and more rain forecast to arrive soon, should I go today? My answer to the OP? .......Dunno :D
 
Terry Simner said:
To me, this does seem to be a valid ethical question, and also goes to the heart of the wants/needs questions that we pose ourselves (most often on a not fully conscious level i.e. we often don't have to deliberate over the question of whether we wish to go fishing or not - we arrive at a conclusion without too much conscious musing). We set ourselves our own rules (our ethics) based on what we see as 'right' or 'wrong' (our morals) Yes, these rules can give us some grief ...but they only become contentious when we express the view that others should have/abide by the same rules as us.
Ok, this case/issue in point is maybe a highly debatable one (we're debating it, so it must be :D ) ... therefore the issue is valid, but not truly contentious. It may be ethical dilemma, but it is posed as a question ('Is this right or wrong?'), not a value judgement on the action of others. Basically we all set ourselves 'rules on engagement' that may seem silly to others, and here's a couple of mine :
Foul hooking : If I hook a target species in anywhere but the mouth I do not count it, even if I saw the fish take the bait. No question, it doesn't count. That's clear-cut, but if it's on the outside of the mouth? Under the lip? An inch from the mouth? Then it's a dilemma (for me)
Fish 'value' : I tend to place a much higher value on fish caught by design, not accident. I get little joy from catching 2lb roach on double 12mm pellet on 12lb b/s ledger rig. Large pike are the same. The 'value' of a P.B. caught by accident? Now there's a dilemma for me :D
But I do still get pleasure from catching all those fish, caught accidentally or not, but tinged with some disappointment.

Angling, like many pastimes, is not on the face of it a rational activity. To many non-anglers is must seem balmy. But we set ourselves our own personal challenges. (e.g. my P.B's are based on which river, and by which method, and have to be caught by design). But it all comes down to (fulfillment of) our own personal wants and needs, and what rules we set for ourselves in achieving them. These rules go from the stringent (as some may say, in the case posed by Lee's OP?) to those of the 'Glory Hunter' (e.g. finding a massive dead eel in a Hampshire pool and claiming it as a National Record?) It's an ethical continuum. We all have our own goals, and we all have our own opinion on what is 'cheating' and what is 'fair'. There's very little right or wrong (moral/immoral) in this as it's almost entirely subjective. "To thine own self be true".
But what we all seek is pleasure.

Yeah, I'm sat here, bored, thinking "After sitting for 4 hours in constant rain yesterday, with it black outside and more rain forecast to arrive soon, should I go today? My answer to the OP? .......Dunno :D
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Extremely well written Terry 👍🏻👍🏻
Nice touch with the dilemma examples too.
Youve absolutely nailed it ..... I would be stuck between a rock and a hard place if I’d caught a pb fish through non intentional tactics.
I had an 11lb bream last year on the heavy barbel gear.
I don’t fish for them yet it was an absolute cracker that really didn’t mean much to me due to the fact of the way it was caught.
Very little contest on 16lb fox Exocet.
Had it been caught trotting I’d of been over moon.
Yes I agree a foul hooked fish doesn’t score points. I’m stricter on that in the respect that I’d say anything other than on the inside is foul hooked.
 
Top post Terry.

And that's the great thing about fishing, it is whatever you want it to be. And we all have our own personal ethics often very contradictory, hence someone can deem catching a fish which is feeding in the margins as being offside, but think nothing of fishing for barbel in an extreme heatwave when everyone else has packed in fishing.

Ultimately who is to judge?
 
Let's face it BFW is pretty much one of the last places we can debate with a certain amount of passion and and retain some respect for others, even if we disagree, the name calling etc is best left to other sites. The OP posed a very pertinent question, which did not just apply to the Carp in the margin, but to other aspects of Angling, as Terry and Richard have mentioned. I posted that we have some 'unwritten' laws Anglers abide by, such as foul hooking, or catching a species that was not intended, and slipped back with no drama's.

Lately I see a lot of big Roach being help up as trophies by Carp anglers who are at a loss as to identify as a Rudd Roach Bream Hybrid and so on, and I would be saddened if the next record Roach or Rudd would be claimed in this way, but it will. However it is 'only fishing' , but we are an odd lot, and to try and explain these things to the non angling public?

Well good luck with that, as even some Anglers don't get it.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Top post Terry.

And that's the great thing about fishing, it is whatever you want it to be. And we all have our own personal ethics often very contradictory, hence someone can deem catching a fish which is feeding in the margins as being offside, but think nothing of fishing for barbel in an extreme heatwave when everyone else has packed in fishing.

Ultimately who is to judge?
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Ouch!! But then again experience will tell you that in such conditions well oxygenated water as in a weir pool offers little danger to the fish. But agreed who is to judge? Well of course we anglers will always judge, as society judges others, it's a Human condition that sets us apart . The OP posed a question, and in his view it was not 'cricket' . Fair enough I respect that.
 
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