Water Company Dividends up £540m from last year...

[Joe Winstanley]

You cannot get away from the simple point I already made, privatised water company combined debt £54 billion, amount paid in share dividends £66 billion. There was little to no debt to begin with! I only see two paths forward:

- taken into public ownership and at what cost, which bill payers will need to fund.
- stays as is in current ownership model and bill payers clear the debt.

It’s a national disgrace and the biggest political scandal of my life time. Nothing will get done until after the next election and both the Tories and Labour, will avoid discussing it, in the lead up to next years general election. It’s totally f*cking criminal

Even if the ownership model changes, you would still be left with the same regulatory framework, except effectively you would be asking the Govt to regulate itself. What could possibly go wrong?

It is the whole system which is rotten and it goes far beyond the issue of ownership. In short this is the result of regulatory failure on a colossal scale. Ofwat are every bit as responsible as the utility companies, their job is to regulate them, but effectively they are in bed with them. Research by the Observer (link below) shows that 27 former Ofwat directors, managers and consultants are now working for the water companies. Basically a 'revolving door'.

Helm reckons that the least valid argument for not renationalising the water companies is the issue of debt: 'As an aside, the one objection to nationalisation which has little merit is that it would cost the government a lot. This is nonsense: it would primarily be swapping of RABs (which are protected by the duty to finance functions) for government bonds. Government would gain the assets and the RABs and swap utility debt for Treasury debt.'

Exclusive: UK water giants recruit top staff from regulator Ofwat

Demands for an end to the ‘revolving door’ as ex-Ofwat directors are hired by key firms

www.theguardian.com

 

[Damian Kimmins]

Thames Water fined £3.3m over river sewage

The firm pumped millions of litres of sewage into rivers, turning them black and killing fish.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Julian Griffiths]

South Today news.....

These celebrities are way behind the curve, but glad to see that they have finally caught up with the rest of the nation!

Henley on Thames campaigners have claimed that they've found nitrates, phosphates, and harmful bacteria in the waters around the competitors of the Henley royal regatta.

The collecting of data has been ongoing for about 4 weeks leading up to the Regatta, & was conducted by the national campaigners 'River Action'

Steve Redgrave Steve backshaw are said to be 'very concerned', with Steve Backshaw saying he's teaching his kids to swim in the Thames, from his river frontage home & he's very concerned with the 'New Evidence' of the levels of raw sewage pollution that's in the Thames on his doorstep!

He's added that there's wild swimmers, paddleboarders, kayakers, rowers etc using the Thames (no word on fishermen /women by the way! ). using the River in the knowledge that human effluent is being pumped in every once in a while, not 500 meters up from where his river frontage home is located.

He went on to say, UK rivers are in the poorest state than any of European neighbours (Really? )

Findings revealed the Thames especially in the location of where these tests were conducted, showed to be & classified as in poor ecological health.

The good news being. That more of these second rate celebrities are climbing on board.... More the merrier, & that it seems Thames Water is never far from the continuous scrutiny & bad press it currently finds itself in... Keep it coming!

 

[Graham Tremble]

3 million……they will be pumping effluent into the river as usual tomorrow…..it won’t even make them blink,
G.T.

 

[Huanzhou Zhu]

South Today news.....

These celebrities are way behind the curve, but glad to see that they have finally caught up with the rest of the nation!

Henley on Thames campaigners have claimed that they've found nitrates, phosphates, and harmful bacteria in the waters around the competitors of the Henley royal regatta.

The collecting of data has been ongoing for about 4 weeks leading up to the Regatta, & was conducted by the national campaigners 'River Action'

Steve Redgrave Steve backshaw are said to be 'very concerned', with Steve Backshaw saying he's teaching his kids to swim in the Thames, from his river frontage home & he's very concerned with the 'New Evidence' of the levels of raw sewage pollution that's in the Thames on his doorstep!

He's added that there's wild swimmers, paddleboarders, kayakers, rowers etc using the Thames (no word on fishermen /women by the way! ). using the River in the knowledge that human effluent is being pumped in every once in a while, not 500 meters up from where his river frontage home is located.

He went on to say, UK rivers are in the poorest state than any of European neighbours (Really? )

Findings revealed the Thames especially in the location of where these tests were conducted, showed to be & classified as in poor ecological health.

The good news being. That more of these second rate celebrities are climbing on board.... More the merrier, & that it seems Thames Water is never far from the continuous scrutiny & bad press it currently finds itself in... Keep it coming!

when those swimmers start to worrying about the river conditions and (I know this sounds horrible but it’s the truth) some of them get illness due to it, that’s the time people start to take this matter seriously.

 

[Julian Griffiths]

when those swimmers start to worrying about the river conditions and (I know this sounds horrible but it’s the truth) some of them get illness due to it, that’s the time people start to take this matter seriously.

That's what I've been saying too.
But what makes me smile, is as soon as the toffs start moaning the world & his dog starts to listen

 

[Ady Brayshaw]

Isn’t the slight hole in the argument for renationalising pretty much anything, they got sold for a reason (well many) and why giving direct control to government who have failed for decades to control the situation via legislation makes little sense. It’s like handing the controls back to a bad manager and expecting better results.

Fair comment. I don't have faith in government competency, whether labour, or conservative.

 

[Stephen Crowhurst]

Fair comment. I don't have faith in government competency, whether labour, or conservative.

Also a fair comment. I won’t share my opinions on parties but it often appears to me that so many have short memories and think a tie change will solve the problems that are in reality far more complex and difficult to resolve than the finger pointing brigades will ever admit. Governance is about the least worst option both for the public and those that serve us, there is no perfect solution and you can never please everyone a fact that we all know.

 

[Stephen Crowhurst]

That's what I've been saying too.
But what makes me smile, is as soon as the toffs start moaning the world & his dog starts to listen

Agreed. Although my thought is when the latte mums start talking about it. When you start getting “informed” by someone who until recently didn’t know the difference between a river and lake about this “latest issue” you know it’s getting traction. I just smile and say, yeah I know.

 

[Dave Quinn]

Even if the ownership model changes, you would still be left with the same regulatory framework, except effectively you would be asking the Govt to regulate itself. What could possibly go wrong?

It is the whole system which is rotten and it goes far beyond the issue of ownership. In short this is the result of regulatory failure on a colossal scale. Ofwat are every bit as responsible as the utility companies, their job is to regulate them, but effectively they are in bed with them. Research by the Observer (link below) shows that 27 former Ofwat directors, managers and consultants are now working for the water companies. Basically a 'revolving door'.

Helm reckons that the least valid argument for not renationalising the water companies is the issue of debt: 'As an aside, the one objection to nationalisation which has little merit is that it would cost the government a lot. This is nonsense: it would primarily be swapping of RABs (which are protected by the duty to finance functions) for government bonds. Government would gain the assets and the RABs and swap utility debt for Treasury debt.'

Exclusive: UK water giants recruit top staff from regulator Ofwat

Demands for an end to the ‘revolving door’ as ex-Ofwat directors are hired by key firms

www.theguardian.com

National debt is over 100% of gdp, any government will need to bring it down rather then increasing it with more expensive debt. Bond rates are high, and don’t look like falling anytime soon

Politically it’s not going to happen. The tax cuts they need before the next election need to be paid for and with the country possibly going into recession, big public sector pay rises and an NHS with growing waiting lists there are other priorities for them than buying loss making busines that needs huge amounts of infrastructure investment

Even Starmers Labour will be looking very carefully what they spend on.

Unfortunately we’re entering a crucial stage of the election cycle.

 

[Julian Marshall]

Had a look today at the `River Nidd Action Group` website which is pressuring Yorks Water to clean up their act. I found a useful tool on their website to find how many instances & duration of sewage overflows : https://www.niddactiongroup.org/page-3/ this comes from the
Catchment Based Approach Data Hub.
Anyway, it's possible to move around the country & check out any sites of interest on any river.
Following some discussion & comments from Neil Smart on the `Close season blues` thread I took a look at the River Isbourne near Evesham which I fished 60 years ago ....
Hinton On The Green Stw (Severn Trent Water)
In 2022, this sewer storm overflow spilled 227 times for a total of 1313.70 hours , discharging into the River Isbourne.
The reason why an overflow may have high spill counts in that period: N/a - Ongoing Investigation.
The reason why event duration monitors may have provided information for <90% of the relevant return period was: Installation Set-up/design Issue.
How any living thing has survived that is beyond me & it's a short distance before it's all in the Avon.
The Nidd has suffered a lot of shorter term incidents but none of them are helpful. I hope the current pressure on the various agencies continues.

 

[Tony Koziol]

Ofwat is to face Ministers this Wednesday regarding the Thames Water financial affairs. Just wonder what biscuits will be on the table.