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Very Sad. Demise of the Barbel. Ribble

I have seen a trout with its belly ripped out on the upper, but no other hard evidence of fish kills, although I have seen Otters on the upper so I do think that they must have an effect,due to the diminishing catches, even if the evidence is not visible, it is a case of predator and prey, the problem being a successful predator such as the otter , who has no natural enemies will soon multiply faster than the prey.

Coupled with cormorants and goosanders what chance do the fish stocks have in the long term ?

David.
 
Whilst this loss of fish is a obviously a big shame, I don't think that otter predation is a huge problem on most of the Ribble where anglers fish.
To put it in perspective we have just had extremely cold weather conditions coinciding with low water levels. Any otter living in this area (which I do recognise) would have few options to feed itself in the nearby stillwaters (I guess they'd be frozen solid) and would be forced to hunt in the river during this cold spell. Any barbel in this stretch would be very inactive and, because this length does not afford any deep water shelter, they would be relatively easy to find. Chub, trout and roach would have an advantage over sluggish barbel and bream at this time of year. On top of that, the fact that there will have been reduced presence of any anglers would mean that the otter would not suffer much disturbance.
The angler who posted the video has previously posted many videos of himself fishing on this stretch and he does say that he has not come across anything like this before. I suspect that what the video shows is the result of a single otter catching one fish per day over a week of extreme conditions. Any smaller fish caught in this period would probably been completely eaten. An otter only needs about 2lbs of food per day so there is always a depressing wastage if it only succeeds in catching a bigger fish.
 
If every otter on the ribble takes one barbel and other fish a week,while we all know they take more this will impact on the fish stocks.
 
Les Watts said:
Whilst this loss of fish is a obviously a big shame, I don't think that otter predation is a huge problem on most of the Ribble where anglers fish.
To put it in perspective we have just had extremely cold weather conditions coinciding with low water levels. Any otter living in this area (which I do recognise) would have few options to feed itself in the nearby stillwaters (I guess they'd be frozen solid) and would be forced to hunt in the river during this cold spell. Any barbel in this stretch would be very inactive and, because this length does not afford any deep water shelter, they would be relatively easy to find. Chub, trout and roach would have an advantage over sluggish barbel and bream at this time of year. On top of that, the fact that there will have been reduced presence of any anglers would mean that the otter would not suffer much disturbance.
The angler who posted the video has previously posted many videos of himself fishing on this stretch and he does say that he has not come across anything like this before. I suspect that what the video shows is the result of a single otter catching one fish per day over a week of extreme conditions. Any smaller fish caught in this period would probably been completely eaten. An otter only needs about 2lbs of food per day so there is always a depressing wastage if it only succeeds in catching a bigger fish.
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they have all ready emptied two large ponds in two large houses on the north bank .that stretch has the largest dog otter i have seen comes close to you and hisses at you.still have my two cards for the river who control most of the river from the m6 to ribchester bridge .what makes it worse is this area is the spawning ground for the barbel.they move from the lower to above the M6 to were the weir used to be to spawn around this time of year all gravel there .
 
When all of your Barbel disappear and someone says 'it could not have been Otters because we would have seen the bodies' remember this video. With their swim bladder and organs gone Barbel sink and are never seen again. What a disaster for any stretch of river. I wonder how many other bodies have gone off downstream on that stretch. So much damage in such little time.
 
Gary Wagstaff said:
they have all ready emptied two large ponds in two large houses on the north bank .that stretch has the largest dog otter i have seen comes close to you and hisses at you.still have my two cards for the river who control most of the river from the m6 to ribchester bridge .what makes it worse is this area is the spawning ground for the barbel.they move from the lower to above the M6 to were the weir used to be to spawn around this time of year all gravel there .
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If it came up to me it'd get a landing net handle over its head. How depressing this situation is. When will they do something about it?
Probably when it's to late for the fish stocks, and the water bird population goes into massive decline.
 
I've heard reliable reports of otters taking up residence in the wilton bridge area of the Wye, this being followed up of poor catch returns. I just hope that we are not witnessing the same.
 
Don't know how long otters live or stay in one area but I last fished that stretch about 6 years ago and a huge dog otter climbed up the bank not 20 yds from me one late afternoon. It just stood on its back legs and hissed at me also proper made me jump.
 
Ed Green said:
I've heard reliable reports of otters taking up residence in the wilton bridge area of the Wye, this being followed up of poor catch returns. I just hope that we are not witnessing the same.
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Ed.
Huge Dog otter swam down middle of river few weeks ago middle of day heading to bridge
Saw another last week a mile upstream.
 
Les Watts said:
Whilst this loss of fish is a obviously a big shame, I don't think that otter predation is a huge problem on most of the Ribble where anglers fish.
To put it in perspective we have just had extremely cold weather conditions coinciding with low water levels. Any otter living in this area (which I do recognise) would have few options to feed itself in the nearby stillwaters (I guess they'd be frozen solid) and would be forced to hunt in the river during this cold spell. Any barbel in this stretch would be very inactive and, because this length does not afford any deep water shelter, they would be relatively easy to find. Chub, trout and roach would have an advantage over sluggish barbel and bream at this time of year. On top of that, the fact that there will have been reduced presence of any anglers would mean that the otter would not suffer much disturbance.
The angler who posted the video has previously posted many videos of himself fishing on this stretch and he does say that he has not come across anything like this before. I suspect that what the video shows is the result of a single otter catching one fish per day over a week of extreme conditions. Any smaller fish caught in this period would probably been completely eaten. An otter only needs about 2lbs of food per day so there is always a depressing wastage if it only succeeds in catching a bigger fish.
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Do you actually fish the ribble? It’s rife with otters I fish different stretches and every stretch I fish have them,I agree there’s a lot going on on the ribble but to say you think there’s not a problem is naive,I can’t understand why anglers say that otters EEs cormorants etc are not a problem I’m convinced most of them don’t fish very often..thanks Dte
 
Hello Ste.
I tried to word my post carefully. I didn't say that otters aren't a problem but rather that they aren't the HUGE problem which had been inferred by the post title "Demise of the Barbel" which I thought was somewhat excessive.
I also tried to limit my comments to the lengths of the Ribble where I and other barbel anglers I know fish. I think it may well be a very different story for the Ribble above Calderfoot and indeed the Rivers Calder and Hodder too. I have very little experience on fishing these lengths (I'm not a keen game angler) and do wonder if the presence of otters here have prevented resident populations of barbel being established - I simply don't know from personal experience but I am aware of the problems reported by others who fish on other "smaller/shallower" rivers.
This last season I have mainly watched the pair of otters that live in the Ribchester area and have noticed how far they move about both up and downstream. I have read somewhere that an otter's territory can cover a 5 mile length of river and that male otters will not tolerate the presence of another male otter in their territory. They will however tolerate the presence of a female and so male and female territories may well overlap. I only saw two different otters in the Ribchester area last year - one larger than the other suggesting one male and one female. Despite dozens of good sightings I only saw them interacting once with the larger animal chasing the smaller one downstream. I have tried very hard to work out what the otter's preferred prey is and have failed - I have yet to come across any barbel corpses like those shown in the video.
As you will know, there are some very deep pools in the Ribchester area (up to 25ft deep) and I think that the older (and larger) barbel know how best to keep out of the otter's way. I managed to catch one 9lb fish last year from a 10ft deep swim only 10 minutes after an otter swam through it.
The video was taken on a section of the "lower" river were there isn't a nearby pool of that depth.
 
The biggest problem by far (only my opinion) is water waste pollution and farming practices with sediment and chemical run offs, I also beleive if we had organisations that actually 'managed' the welfare of the rivers properly and sympathetically without mass removal of snags, bankside trees and other sanctuaries that the fish need to seek refuge, then our rivers inhabitants would be able to cope somewhat better.
Habitat improvements is vitally important too, not just chucking in loads of small fish as a token gesture, then doingva survey showing young fish are thriving, when everyone knows they're not.

I cannot deny the massive reduction of waterfowl on our rivers as well, never thought I'd see the day where flocks of mallard ducks would become a thing of the past. Beleive otters are definitely the culprits here.

A thriving well managed habitat would encourage higher numbers of fish recruitment. We just dont have that balance anymore, to many human impacts, and the system doesn't have the chance to fight back.

I do hear the cray fish argument to by the way, but surely they cant eat every single fertilised egg thats ever successfully spawned in their thousands can they?

Then its the oestrogen levels, our male fish have taken a liking to eyeliner and perfume and constantly complaining...😂
Yeah its not until you start writing a post, do you realise its more than just one problem, the balance of recovery against the causes are massively tipped the wrong way.

Makes you laugh when the water companies say the rivers are the cleanest they've ever been, I still remember polluted degraded areas holding fish years ago.
 
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Yep, when you look at the food chain from the bottom up it's screwed, lack of small invertebrates being the big one. Remember summers with car windscreens covered in squashed insects? Don't see that anymore.
People think kill the otters, restock with barbel, job done, but it's not that simple.
 
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