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Upstreaming Without Screaming...

John Cook

John Cook

Senior Member
Hi All,

Towards the end of last season i had a go at fishing 2 rods in a largeish swim for the first time cant say that i enjoyed it though as the thought of one line getting around the other was in the back of my mind, i fished the second rod upstream with a heavier lead than the downstream rod, both rods fished with backleads to try to minimize tangles between rods, caught a few chub on the upstream rod indications were a bouncing tip and me being unsure at times as to when to strike, unlike when using a quivertip with a good bend in it and waiting for a dropback, fancy giving it a go again this term anyone any thoughts?:)
 
John Cook said:
Hi All,

Towards the end of last season i had a go at fishing 2 rods in a largeish swim for the first time cant say that i enjoyed it though as the thought of one line getting around the other was in the back of my mind, i fished the second rod upstream with a heavier lead than the downstream rod, both rods fished with backleads to try to minimize tangles between rods, caught a few chub on the upstream rod indications were a bouncing tip and me being unsure at times as to when to strike, unlike when using a quivertip with a good bend in it and waiting for a dropback, fancy giving it a go again this term anyone any thoughts?:)
Click to expand...

Hi John,
Upstreaming is a favourite method of mine.
You wern't doing anything wrong there, except there is no need to back lead, even a very slow flow coming downstream will pin your line down, all the way to your rod top if you wish. I assume you were using shop bought back leads which are fairly heavy, when i use them downstream i make my own very light backleads no more than a 1/4oz, which are ample, but as i say upstreaming you don't need them, and using them in weights getting on for an ounce will mean you won't make contact with your main lead for possibly several more seconds than need be, which could result in the fish dropping off if it's able to shake the hook before it's set properly.

I fish with my baitrunner set slack, so line is pulled through the eye of the weight, once i get a run i wind down very fast until i make contact with the lead, and then strike firmly, but the way you are fishing is fine.
I believe a blob of heavy metal putty or a swan shot and inch above the hook will help to keep the hook in place until you set the hook with a strike.

Upstreaming does take a bit of getting used to, but it will all come right for you i'm sure, there is always the risk of a fish dropping off - very few though, and these are all fish that you wouldn't have otherwise caught, or very unlikley to have.
Stay with it mate it's well worth it ;)

Ian.
 
Upstream ledgering can be such a rewarding way of fishing. As some may be aware I always hold the rod and this method really makes sense when fishing upstream. Use the lightest lead possible, keep a bow in the line and watch/feel for dropbacks. Very sensitive. Of course I am referring to rivers like the Upper Medway, Kennet and weirstreams in the Thames. May not work on the Trent or Tidal Severn, but you never know until you try it.

Edit.....the best baitrunner is a Speedia!

Regards


Hugo

 
Only tried upstreaming once, didn,t have any success. Had lots of drop backs and struck at everything, but no fish. Not sure if i was fishing it right, used the same set up as my downstream rod. Just a normal running lead. Not sure if it was fish or the current dislodging the lead. Any help greatly appreciated, thank you. Regards, Derek.
 
You normally get two types of bite, either the 3 foot twitch or the knocking of the rod tip as the fish moves downstream dragging the lead. In both cases the fish is on, I haven't dropped any fish this way.
 
upstreaming

From my experience Derek, it looks as though you may have needed more weight on your upstream rod. With a bow of line being under pressure from the flow, your ledger was probably being dislodged, resulting in numerous drop-backs. Persevere with the method and you'll reap the rewards. I was a little unsure about this until Graham Elliott talked me through it and I had a nine-fish haul on the Wye, eight of which were on the upstream rod:)
 
I like to use a quiver tip when upstreaming. The trick is to balance the bend in the tip against the combined weight of the lead and the pressure of the water on the line. This ballance is achieved by ajusting the height of the front rest.
At the beginning of the session I select a lead which will hold well in the current, I then put the rod in the rest, set a slight bend into the quiver and slowly lower the front, which puts more water pressure on the line, until the lead breaks away. Take a note of this position and raise the rest a few inches, this is your starting point. When you are fishing for real you will find yourself adjusting this position through the day for more or less sensitivity.

You are fishing for drop backs with this method and it is the only time I strike when fishing for barbel. I strike every time that tip moves, especially when using a feeder, if you have got it right the feeder will move the first time a bit of weed or a leaf hits the line after the feeder has emptied. If it breaks too easily raise the tip to get some line out of the water, if it won't break away lower the tip to get some more line in the water.


To get the best out of it I find I need to concentrate all my attention on the rod while fishing this method.
If I intend fishing a second rod I tend to make it a sleeper down the edge in the hope of picking up one of those fish which cruise the margins looking for discarded hook baits and feeder spillage.
 
John Cook said:
Hi All,

Towards the end of last season i had a go at fishing 2 rods in a largeish swim for the first time cant say that i enjoyed it though as the thought of one line getting around the other was in the back of my mind, i fished the second rod upstream with a heavier lead than the downstream rod, both rods fished with backleads to try to minimize tangles between rods, caught a few chub on the upstream rod indications were a bouncing tip and me being unsure at times as to when to strike, unlike when using a quivertip with a good bend in it and waiting for a dropback, fancy giving it a go again this term anyone any thoughts?:)
Click to expand...

I have never really done much upstreaming, at least not in the Tony Miles way with critically balanced weights and a quivertip, so I'll leave advice on this method to others.

I have tried something I read about in a book or article once, possibly Quest for Barbel. I believe it is a Trefor West tactic although apologies if this is not the case. The idea is to cast upstream and let the bait settle. After leaving the bait in place for a short while the rod is lifted to dislodge the weight and let it move downstream to a new settling point. It's a bit like trundling but with a heavier weight and pauses in the bait's movement. I probably used a weight that was a bit too heavy, but even so, on the occasions that I used it I have caught some fish.

The reason I brought this up is that all of the bites took the form of a bouncing rod tip. This would appear to be the result of a fish picking up the bait and dislodging the lead which then bounces on the gravel as the fish moves off. When the lead moves naturally it tends to be a much slower bounce.
 
Hi Ian,

Thank you for the info mate, I was using the korda flying backlead about 2 foot from the lead and then a clip on tiny flat lead at the rod tip, my main concern was to make sure that all the line was pinned to the bottom on both rods, i have this big fear of the lines getting tangled with each other, so you fish a slack line to your upstream rod? Is your upstream lead heavier than your downstream?
 
John Cook said:
Hi Ian,

Thank you for the info mate, I was using the korda flying backlead about 2 foot from the lead and then a clip on tiny flat lead at the rod tip, my main concern was to make sure that all the line was pinned to the bottom on both rods, i have this big fear of the lines getting tangled with each other, so you fish a slack line to your upstream rod? Is your upstream lead heavier than your downstream?
Click to expand...

Hi John,
When i first started upstreaming, tangles with my downstream line were my concern also, which is why preferentialy i try to keep my baited areas as far from each other as possible, my rods are never put together, but are placed either side of me, but no more than arms length, angleing the rods slightly also helps to keep the lines where they enter the water as far apart as possible.
Most often when landing a fish taken on either rod, at the point when i'm drawing the fish over the net the other line still in the water is still a minimum of several feet away.
If i feel the need depending on how open my swim is, when playing an upstream fish i move my downstream rod onto a bankstick placed further away at the beginning of my session.
If playing a downstream fish sometimes i bend down and pay more line off the baitrunner on my upstream rod until the line is right underneath the rod top if i feel the need to do so, the line is then pinned to the river bed from your rod top to your bait, allowing any fish being played to pass right over the line without the chance of your lines being caught, or highly unlikley at any rate.

I've never once come close to a tangle, i think out the possible senarios in my head, and then take steps to avoid them, like the insurance of having an extra bankstick for my downstream rod placed several feet further that my rod rests, if i feel the need could arise.

Yes the upstream line is 'slack' because when years ago i first attempted upstreaming i found liners were causing exactly the same indications as bites by keeping the line tight to the lead some were pretty savage pulls, and i was stiking them.
I now after having cast out, hold the rod up at about 45 degrees and start to pay line off the reel, slowly lowering the rod as the flow tensions the line as it pins it to the river bed, so in fact the line is straight and under slight tension, and is in as much contact with the lead as is possible to achieve, but is as you say to all intents and purposes 'slack' this is mainly with the purpose of avoiding liners, in this way when i get an indication i'm 99% sure it's a fish, though i don't strike until my baitrunner's 'fizzing' if not using the baitrunner, you should wait until you get several nods at which point you know your lead is being dragged by a fish, and not just one having a pluck at your bait, because that will show as a nod on your rod top.

My upstream lead is almost always two ounces, giving enough resistance to pull the hook into the fishes lip if not set it, my downstream lead generally is 1 ounce, rarely heavier, and often lighter if the positioning of my bait, and the swim allows it, this is because of my paranoia in believing them big old cute girls will be able to feel the lead when mouthing , and plucking the bait.

I find the 2 ounce suffices on the upstream, and i kind of don't like the idea of larger weights swinging about on my line whilst playing a fish, and anything more i feel is an overkill.

All the best mate...... not long now and you'll be able to give it another go :D

Ian.
 
Thank you Ian plenty of sound info in your post and article, yes i would only go with the 2 rod set up when there is the space in the swim to set the rods quite far apart even better if there is space to walk upstream should a take come from that rod, i will go with your 1 and 2 ounce suggestion and do away with the upstream backlead see if i can get that baitrunner fizzing LOL....:eek: I will re read your articles till it has fully sunk in and as you say Ian not long to go now then i can try it out, Ian send me over a couple of kilos of your special recipe boilies:rolleyes: Have a good one.

Take care
John
 
I have used a much heavier lead (3oz), for my upstreaming and the rod tip is not bent into the weight of the lead - in fact almost the opposite as there is just the tension of the flow making the tip bend a little. Both (yes, only 2!), takes from barbel were smack rounds - the barbel doesn't know you are fishing upstream! :)
 
Heavy leads all the way when upstreaming. For a river like the Ouse 2 oz normally suffices; I let the head hit bottom and then pay out slack until the line is dropping vertical from the tip. Bites are always wrap rounds (that would rip line off a bait-runner if I used one).

For me the use of heavy leads 'evolved' because when balancing the lead to the flow I was getting big drop backs but a wind down and a strike normally met with thin air. I didnt realise it at the time but I was probably getting liners that dislodged the feeder like a bite would (as per Ians explanation for it).
 
What like you did Crooky:eek:
 
Hi Ian,

Just a quickie, regarding upstreaming and useing the flow to pin down the line would this method still work with braid mainline (powerpro) being a floating line?

John
 
John Cook said:
Hi Ian,

Just a quickie, regarding upstreaming and useing the flow to pin down the line would this method still work with braid mainline (powerpro) being a floating line?

John
Click to expand...

I've never used braid as a mainline John, so i can't comment from experience, but i would think it would, but being thinner in gauge than mono, and also if a floating line could possibly be problematic, the only way is to try it out in shallow clear water so you can see whats happening, just tie a lead on, and pay line off the reel allowing the flow to tension the line as you drop the rod end, you might find it works if fishing directly inline with your rod top, but possibly not if casting further out into the flow.
Sorry i can't be of more help than that, i've just got no experience of braided main lines other than for use on a marker rod when Carp fishing.

Ian.
 
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