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The Water Pollution Cover-Up

My experience in budget setting, targets, objectives and staffing levels lead me to conclude very quickly that you have to fight your corner very very hard it matters not who you work for. If you lose staff and budget you have to work harder and cut your cloth accordingly. It did you no favours if you whinged and whined about how badly you were treated. That is life and it can be a bitch.
Completely fair point. But the EA top level management didn't fight their corner. They were appointed to keep their heads down and waive through the cuts. Good leaders stand up for their organisations and their staff. No other Govt agency had their budgets cut to the extent the EA did.
 
Not too sure on the Lib Dems here Neil and their understanding of green or enviromental issues, in particular Ed Daveys understanding as I believe he was involved in the rubber stamping of Hinckley Point whilst in coalition a Nuclear Power Station !!!

Ed again whilst in coalition was also involved in the HUGE miscarriage of justice with the introduction of the Horizon System at the Post Office when all those poor sub post offices owners/workers were wrongly convicted as the system cast them as thieves.

For me it’s about the here and now:

- Conservatives: As said already environmental and biodiversity issues, is just green crap, which gets in the way of economic growth and house building 😡

- Labour: I watch PMQ’s every week and Starmer hasn’t once asked an environmental based question during his leadership. You have to question why is this? I also deal with NRW who report to the Welsh run Labour Assembly. NRW is a sh#t show, which isn’t fit for purpose. For house building they have introduced a new term recently ‘Greyfield Sites’; when pushed on what this means, they said areas including scrubland. Fantastic let’s trash more wildlife rich habitats 😡

- Lib Dems: Plain and simple, they are the only main party banging on about the environment, including the scandal of the privatised water companies and sewage pollution. They raise this in parliament, inc during PMQ’s. Following the recent Kings Speech on government policy for the next year, they were the only ones asking, why is there nothing in there on tackling sewage 👍🏻

Re Ed Davey and whatever he has/hasn’t been involved in previously, I’m not that bothered. I’ve already stated on other threads that I consider the current situation with the privatised water companies (sewage, debt levels, shareholder dividends etc) to be the biggest political scandal of my lifetime.

Bringing the Post Office Horizon scandal into it, isn’t relevant to Lib Dem policy on the water companies/sewage. It’s a bit like when Ed Davey last asked a question during PMQ’s on sewage. He was heckled by Tory MP’s throughout and Sunak chose to ignore the question and instead replied about past Lib Dem policy on tuition fees; WTF and speaks volumes 😡

So again, sewage pollution is what I’m most worried about, so the Lib Dems get my vote at the next general election.

Note in the past I have emailed my local Tory MP, about various issues. I‘ve always had a detailed reply through the post on House of Commons letter head. The last time I emailed her, I expressed my dismay re Sewage pollution and asked her to justify, how the Privatised Water companies, had been allowed to rack up £50 billion in debt, having paid over £60 billion in share dividends. I also pointed out that the UK‘s largest angling club, is based in her constituency and that anglers are furious, with what has been allowed to happen. On this occasion no reply was received back.
 
For me it’s about the here and now:

- Conservatives: As said already environmental and biodiversity issues, is just green crap, which gets in the way of economic growth and house building 😡

- Labour: I watch PMQ’s every week and Starmer hasn’t once asked an environmental based question during his leadership. You have to question why is this? I also deal with NRW who report to the Welsh run Labour Assembly. NRW is a sh#t show, which isn’t fit for purpose. For house building they have introduced a new term recently ‘Greyfield Sites’; when pushed on what this means, they said areas including scrubland. Fantastic let’s trash more wildlife rich habitats 😡

- Lib Dems: Plain and simple, they are the only main party banging on about the environment, including the scandal of the privatised water companies and sewage pollution. They raise this in parliament, inc during PMQ’s. Following the recent Kings Speech on government policy for the next year, they were the only ones asking, why is there nothing in there on tackling sewage 👍🏻

Re Ed Davey and whatever he has/hasn’t been involved in previously, I’m not that bothered. I’ve already stated on other threads that I consider the current situation with the privatised water companies (sewage, debt levels, shareholder dividends etc) to be the biggest political scandal of my lifetime.

Bringing the Post Office Horizon scandal into it, isn’t relevant to Lib Dem policy on the water companies/sewage. It’s a bit like when Ed Davey last asked a question during PMQ’s on sewage. He was heckled by Tory MP’s throughout and Sunak chose to ignore the question and instead replied about past Lib Dem policy on tuition fees; WTF and speaks volumes 😡

So again, sewage pollution is what I’m most worried about, so the Lib Dems get my vote at the next general election.

Note in the past I have emailed my local Tory MP, about various issues. I‘ve always had a detailed reply through the post on House of Commons letter head. The last time I emailed her, I expressed my dismay re Sewage pollution and asked her to justify, how the Privatised Water companies, had been allowed to rack up £50 billion in debt, having paid over £60 billion in share dividends. I also pointed out that the UK‘s largest angling club, is based in her constituency and that anglers are furious, with what has been allowed to happen. On this occasion no reply was received back.

It's worth also mentioning that only back in September, the Govt had its plans to axe the 'nutrient neutrality' planning laws voted down by the House of Lords.

https://environment-analyst.com/brn/109686/government-defeated-on-nutrient-neutrality-amendments
 
For me it’s about the here and now:

- Conservatives: As said already environmental and biodiversity issues, is just green crap, which gets in the way of economic growth and house building 😡

- Labour: I watch PMQ’s every week and Starmer hasn’t once asked an environmental based question during his leadership. You have to question why is this? I also deal with NRW who report to the Welsh run Labour Assembly. NRW is a sh#t show, which isn’t fit for purpose. For house building they have introduced a new term recently ‘Greyfield Sites’; when pushed on what this means, they said areas including scrubland. Fantastic let’s trash more wildlife rich habitats 😡

- Lib Dems: Plain and simple, they are the only main party banging on about the environment, including the scandal of the privatised water companies and sewage pollution. They raise this in parliament, inc during PMQ’s. Following the recent Kings Speech on government policy for the next year, they were the only ones asking, why is there nothing in there on tackling sewage 👍🏻

Re Ed Davey and whatever he has/hasn’t been involved in previously, I’m not that bothered. I’ve already stated on other threads that I consider the current situation with the privatised water companies (sewage, debt levels, shareholder dividends etc) to be the biggest political scandal of my lifetime.

Bringing the Post Office Horizon scandal into it, isn’t relevant to Lib Dem policy on the water companies/sewage. It’s a bit like when Ed Davey last asked a question during PMQ’s on sewage. He was heckled by Tory MP’s throughout and Sunak chose to ignore the question and instead replied about past Lib Dem policy on tuition fees; WTF and speaks volumes 😡

So again, sewage pollution is what I’m most worried about, so the Lib Dems get my vote at the next general election.

Note in the past I have emailed my local Tory MP, about various issues. I‘ve always had a detailed reply through the post on House of Commons letter head. The last time I emailed her, I expressed my dismay re Sewage pollution and asked her to justify, how the Privatised Water companies, had been allowed to rack up £50 billion in debt, having paid over £60 billion in share dividends. I also pointed out that the UK‘s largest angling club, is based in her constituency and that anglers are furious, with what has been allowed to happen. On this occasion no reply was received back.
You have made an informed choice and we still live in a democracy👍
 
But critically, methane as a flow gas is destroyed in the atmosphere within a 12-year period. So emissions from livestock only contribute to global warming for a 12-year period. Assuming the number of cattle remains the same, the global warming effect is neutral over a 12-year period.

Sorry, but while it's true that methane in the environment is broken down after 12 years, it's effectively here forever, because year-on-year more of it gets pumped into the atmosphere.

The ever increasing demand for meat and dairy (as we all get richer) makes livestock more profitable than crops. Livestock numbers (and cattle in particular) are therefore rising worldwide. Even in parts of the USA, where the nature of the land is more suitable for crops and the machinery required, it's more profitable to rear cattle.

So there are no 12-years cycles, nor any such thing as methane neutrality. Until we address demand, there can be no reductions or even levelling out of methane in the environment.

This point is never made by opponents of livestock farming.

They don't have to, because the conclusion arrived at - based on the lifecycle of methane - is a non sequitur.
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Your not distinguishing between long carbon cycle fossil methane, and short carbon cycle biogenic methane. The former being massively undercounted (and we all know why..) And I'm not arguing that methane emissions don't need to be reduced, all emissions need to be reduced. But biogenic methane emissions are significantly overestimated. And the wider picture of land use and CO2 sequestration into soil has to be considered. There far too much emphasis on methane as a single metric.

And your falling into the trap of placing all livestock production systems in the envelope. Yes global meat and dairy consumption needs to be significantly reduced as not all systems are sustainable, clearly. But grass/pasture based systems are sustainable, when properly managed. In the right context, it's not the cow, it's the how.

I would also add that even within intensive systems there are also means of reducing methane emissions through the use of AD.
 
Sorry, but while it's true that methane in the environment is broken down after 12 years, it's effectively here forever, because year-on-year more of it gets pumped into the atmosphere.

The ever increasing demand for meat and dairy (as we all get richer) makes livestock more profitable than crops. Livestock numbers (and cattle in particular) are therefore rising worldwide. Even in parts of the USA, where the nature of the land is more suitable for crops and the machinery required, it's more profitable to rear cattle.

So there are no 12-years cycles, nor any such thing as methane neutrality. Until we address demand, there can be no reductions or even levelling out of methane in the environment.



They don't have to, because the conclusion arrived at - based on the lifecycle of methane - is a non sequitur.
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There is a need to distinguish between long carbon cycle fossil methane, and short carbon cycle biogenic methane. The former being massively undercounted (and we all know why..) And I'm not arguing that methane emissions don't need to be reduced, all emissions need to be reduced. But biogenic methane emissions are significantly overestimated. And the wider picture of land use and CO2 sequestration into soil has to be considered. There far too much emphasis on methane as a single metric.

And your falling into the trap of placing all livestock production systems in the envelope. Yes global meat and dairy consumption needs to be significantly reduced as not all systems are sustainable, clearly. But grass/pasture based systems are sustainable, when properly managed. In the right context, it's not the cow, it's the how.

I would also add that even within intensive systems there are also means of reducing methane emissions through the use of AD.
 
And your falling into the trap of placing all livestock production systems in the envelope. Yes global meat and dairy consumption needs to be significantly reduced as not all systems are sustainable, clearly. But grass/pasture based systems are sustainable, when properly managed. In the right context, it's not the cow, it's the how.

There was an excellent piece on Radio 4 about a year ago on this. I'm not convinced that the argument in favour of pasture necessarily means that it;'s okay to use such pasture, or land, for livestock..

Maybe if it's not the cow it's certainly not the plough. Crops can be rotated on land that never sees a plough. Yields may be less than where practice relies on fertilisers, but the cost of those additives can be wiped out, making different approaches perfectly viable. Also, the reduction of fertilisers is better for the planet in its own right.

Interesting subject. I have livestock farmers in the family who disagree with my musings.
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There was an excellent piece on Radio 4 about a year ago on this. I'm not convinced that the argument in favour of pasture necessarily means that it;'s okay to use such pasture, or land, for livestock..

Maybe if it's not the cow it's certainly not the plough. Crops can be rotated on land that never sees a plough. Yields may be less than where practice relies on fertilisers, but the cost of those additives can be wiped out, making different approaches perfectly viable. Also, the reduction of fertilisers is better for the planet in its own right.

Interesting subject. I have livestock farmers in the family who disagree with my musings.
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A lot depends on how you use that pasture.

Agree 100% about the plough, I doubt we will see much ploughing in another decade. The sheer cost of the fuel required will be the main druiving factor, regardless of the obvious soil health benefits. I'm not convinced about the kinetics of stockless rotations, they seem far too dependent on inorganic fertiliser inputs in the longer term to stay productive. I believe the most sustainable farming systems do involve some livestock farming within the arable rotation, mob grazing herbal leys as a break crop being a good example.

'Meat: A Benign Extravagance' by Simon Fairlee is a good read. A few years old now, but the core points of it still hold true.
 

The only logical way out of this mess, is for the Government to take control of the water companies and put customer bills up over a number of years to clear the combined £50+ billion debt.

I 100% don’t agree with it 👎🏻, but what other viable solution is there? Currently the can just gets kicked down the road, but a default by Thames Water may force the issue; however the government will likely just lend them the money.

Other considerations are pension scheme investments, as we are all tied into these companies indirectly.
 
The only logical way out of this mess, is for the Government to take control of the water companies and put customer bills up over a number of years to clear the combined £50+ billion debt.

I 100% don’t agree with it 👎🏻, but what other viable solution is there? Currently the can just gets kicked down the road, but a default by Thames Water may force the issue; however the government will likely just lend them the money.

Other considerations are pension scheme investments, as we are all tied into these companies indirectly.
It's a pretty poor situation I know that!
 
I agree, and will partake if something is properly organised. However, my observation of human nature is that most will bottle it.

Didn't someone say that the license fee accounts for 1% (or thereabouts) of the EA's funding? That being the case, a boycott will achieve nothing.

And replace them with whom? Another set of incompetents? That's why I haven't voted in a general election since 1979.

I agree, politicians are pretty low calibre right now, but people have given their lives for democracy and the right to vote - and for that reason I always cast my vote. It's arguable that those who choose not to vote, have no right to comment... they disenfranchise themselves voluntarily. ;)
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Didn't someone say that the license fee accounts for 1% (or thereabouts) of the EA's funding? That being the case, a boycott will achieve nothing.



I agree, politicians are pretty low calibre right now, but people have given their lives for democracy and the right to vote - and for that reason I always cast my vote. It's arguable that those who choose not to vote, have no right to comment... they disenfranchise themselves voluntarily. ;)
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Regardless of cost a licence boycott is sending a message.

I think that voting makes absolutely no difference with the current choice of main stream political incompetents. For this reason, a low voting turnout sends another message.

Introducing a PR system could shakes things up and potentially gets things done. However, the top two incompetents are unlikely to agree to that.
 
Didn't someone say that the license fee accounts for 1% (or thereabouts) of the EA's funding? That being the case, a boycott will achieve nothing.



I agree, politicians are pretty low calibre right now, but people have given their lives for democracy and the right to vote - and for that reason I always cast my vote. It's arguable that those who choose not to vote, have no right to comment... they disenfranchise themselves voluntarily. ;)
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You could spoil your ballot?
 
The only message that the EA will act upon is to tell inspectors to get out and fine everyone £2,500.00. No thanks.
You don't have to fish and risk a fine. There was a fishing strike in Ireland in the 80's. That sent a message. If anyone's underwhelmed with the performance of the EA it doesn't take much balls to boycott their rod and line licence tax.
 
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