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The bigger picture & the biggest problem

Hi Mark, unlike Craig, I am not privy to what it is you actually do in the way of research and good works...perhaps you could explain?

As for your list of brief answers

(1) in what way is paying a licence self explanatory, in what context, other than that we have to by law, in order to fish? I see no connection between that and our discussion. No doubt I am missing your point, so again, please explain.
(2) I don't remember asking where you got your information from, but that doesn't matter either way, though I suspect you are right.
(3)The effects (feminisation) of estrogen and similar chemicals on fish, and shows every sign og getting worse. Are you saying that British fish are more Macho than Canadian fish, so remain unaffected?
(4)Shame you don't work for the EA, because there is no denying that you seem to care...which is more than 99% 0f the executives in the EA.
(5) Join a body with the clout to do something? I am a member of the AT, which as far as I am aware is the only such body....though I resisted for some time because I was disturbed and in total disagreement with many of their stated aims and the very political direction they were/are heading in. They seem very much like our present government....very good at trotting out glib statements regarding the things they know we all want to hear, but actually subtly doing exactly the opposite...or nothing at all. I am also disturbed at their panic tactics when expected membership numbers failed to materialise, and some of the dubious or at least questionable hobbyists they took on board in order to boost those numbers.
(6) I am told that Karen Twines research was at the very least partially funded by the EA. If...and I admit it is a BIG if...that is so, then the final results of that research will surely be tainted....you do NOT bite the hand that feeds you! Research funding is excruciatingly hard to come by.
(7)Some say....and some do. Very true. As I say, I have no idea what it is you do, but would absolutely applaud you if it turns out you are a great doer and shaker. However, I would not apologise, as discussions such as this are the lifeblood of what eventually gets done. I consider them to be vital. My own contribution? Not as much as I would like, in part because I don't drive, in part because I frequently don't get about on my pins as well as I should. In fact I am currently undergoing investigations as to why I have been unable to walk at all for the last two weeks. However, I do as much as I can on forums (I belong to several) to make people aware of some of the alarming facts that my researches (Which, as you say, come from the same source as yours) turn up. And I for one consider that important, though no doubt others would disagree. At the very least, you have to admit that I do care....passionately. I am not particularly popular on these boards because I pound away at subjects some others would rather were left alone. That may annoy some, may strike a sympathetic note with others...but what it does do for sure is get people THINKING. If you see no value in that...then you are not the man I thought you were.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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The EA has too many conflicting interests. These invariably are to the detriment of angling, the most obvious example being that the fisheries team are not in direct communication with the flood management team. Flood management basically translates as habitat removal; the fishery team have to deal with the flack from anglers as a result.

Dr Butterworth resigned from the EA because they ignored his advice as a matter of course. This came to a head over hydropower and his total opposition to it; the EA have to be behind this government scam no matter what the experts say about it. And that says it all the EA.

The angling trust should get our license money.
 
Ash Gould said:
The EA has too many conflicting interests. These invariably are to the detriment of angling, the most obvious example being that the fisheries team are not in direct communication with the flood management team. Flood management basically translates as habitat removal; the fishery team have to deal with the flack from anglers as a result.

Dr Butterworth resigned from the EA because they ignored his advice as a matter of course. This came to a head over hydropower and his total opposition to it; the EA have to be behind this government scam no matter what the experts say about it. And that says it all the EA.

The angling trust should get our license money.
Click to expand...

That raises another contentious issue Ash. I too would like to see membership of the AT as a condition of being granted an angling licence. I am not sure about all the licence money going to them, but an extra £5 to £10 on the licence going straight to them would give them all the funds they need to fight the wrongs that plague our waters in an effective, meaningful way. OK, I know it would bring it's own faults with it, and an awful lot of infighting and chest beating would have to be gone through before we had the right, elected team of decent, right minded people, with the good of angling at heart, running the show. Also, if the Issuing, payment collection and policing/bailiffing of all fisheries to enforce and ensure everyone had a licence....and of course the portion of the EA licence monies allocated to that task at present was given over to them as well....THEN we might see some real results....a representative body with real power and teeth to bite with when needed. Is that really too hard to bring about? Or more likely, does the very thought of that kind of power in the hands of those who know how to use it frighten the sh it out of those that could set it up. More food for thought perhaps?

Cheers, Dave.
 
sorry craig i`ve just had another reply timed out, anyone know how to get round this before i try again ?.
 
Mark,

Write your reply in MS Word and take all the time you want. Then just copy / cut and paste it into the reply box.
 
Craig Wood said:
Hi Tim,
Unfortunately it just goes to show that Angling does not have ANY organisation that were prepared to fight, out of the millions that fish..
It took a small group of surfers to bring the water companies to justice..
I think that says it all really..
Click to expand...

Anglers are seen as self-interested, working class, smelly and, above all, cruel individuals. They leave their families for hours and days at a time to pursue a pastime that, frankly, the population at large don't get at all. They poison swans, hate otters, rant about eastern Europeans and shout at canoeists.
An angler campaigning against pollution will be ignored, but a free-spirited, tousle-haired, laid-back and, evidently, middle-class surfer conjures up images of dreamy family holidays, Cornish beaches, barbecues and pretty girls with their faces lit up by bonfires. They stand for freedom, fresh air and good times.
Our problem, in this regard, is to do with image. And anglers have a poor one.
 
As some will know i`m a bailiff on a stretch of the nene which I take great pride in so spend a lot of time walking the river at all times of the day and night looking for illegal anglers, poachers, set lines, and the like as well as fish spotting, taking water temps, recording the spawning, recording fish catch`s from those willing to give them, looking after anglers concerns and giving them the info want to know and selling day tickets, around this I fit in my own fishing as well as a full time job so you can see I put a lot in.
We have a very good relationship with the EA and a lot of my info I share with them as it helps them build up a better picture of this section, after giving them this seasons barbel catch reports and dates of capture a month later I received a very good report on the season matched against flow patterns and more, this info is of great value to my anglers, the club and EA so you can see they will help if you are willing to help them.
last year the EA spent £40,000 on a river enhancement scheme on my section which included bank re profileing, digging out two new fish refuge`s, adding 40 tons of new spawning gravel, putting in upstream flow deflectors and lots more, a small amount of money you might say but the results for the fish and fishing were even better than we could have expected.
I also have issues with the EA regarding illegal activity which I have to confront at great risk to myself only to find that after i`ve got all the info and reported it in they still have`nt done anything about it, but this is down to another dept higher up the chain of command so we can`t judge the EA all the same, some good depts. Some bad depts..
On 18th june 2013 2 miles downstream we suffered a devastating pollution incident which all but finished that section for the season only 2 days in, and believe me seeing so many dead and dying fish is not something I ever want to see again, EA estimate was 4,ooo our was estimated was 10-12,000 and the lost revenue to the club from day ticket sales etc was huge so I know about effects of polluted rivers.
I was`nt having a pop at craig but my point is that if you have the facts and care passionately about things then join a body like AT and you stand more chance of being heard.
I wish you good luck but please see both sides of the coin, they will listen if you are prepared to help them.
 
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sorry tim no link as it was a booklet, and i`m not going to copy an extract, my point is they will help if you help them.
 
The EA officers at ground level know full well whats going on, but just like EVERYONE else they are powerless to act..The EA officers on the ground level are genuine and care, but in my opinion they are just a token jesture to appease Angling..
One thing i have noticed the EA only clean up rivers once the industries that have been polluting them have gone, just like the River Don as Mark mentioned..Now you need to ask yourself why did they allow these industries to carry on polluting?..The answer is quite simple..The industries were paying to pollute, alot of money..They were also more than likely putting money into the coffers of the ruling political party at that time also..

We need a strong independent organisation that does not have to answer to the government..How we do this, well, i really dont have any idea..
I wont join the AT simply because they work alongside the EA, so i am not giving money to ANY group that works with them, because i simply cannot trust them and after everything that is now coming out, i would hope that many more begin to realise the extent of their lies and the huge cover up thats been happening for years..

One thing Angling does have in its favour, NUMBERS..Millions take part in Angling, now if MOST Anglers stood together and firstly said WE ARE NO LONGER PREPARED TO FUND A ORGANISATION THAT DOES NOT REPRESENT ANGLING, now if this group was big enough and with funding we could relish a day in court and all the media that would go with it, this is something the EA would not want..
NOT HAVING A EA LICENCE IS NOT A CRIMINAL OFFENCE.
IT DOES NOT SHOW ON ANY CRB CHECK.
All they have done for years is rely on people being affraid they will get in trouble.
I myself only buy it because i dont want some stab proof jacketed people telling me i have to leave a fisherie..
How many more would be prepared to stand up and not purchase the EA licence if there was a group who would back you up in court and cover your legal costs and fine.?..
Perhaps on condition of joining such a group, you have to pay the exact amount that the EA licence would of cost..Think about it if just 100,000 Anglers did this the EA would be quaking in their boots and also we would be able to get some positive media attention..
We could get public support, after all EVERYONE is going to be picking up the bill for the fines that are going to imposed by the EU law courts..
Lets see how most of you feel next year when your EA licence money changes..;)..
TIME TO MAKE A STAND AND UNITE WITH OTHER CONSERVATION GROUPS..
This is the only way forward..
 
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