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Thames 50

Saw a report on the news this morning the Queens official swan upper reports that numbers of Cygnets are seriously down after the count on the Thames this week. The count has been going down rapidly since 2015,he blames youth with air rifles,destruction of nests and American Mink,no mention of Otters.
 
Mark Swaby said:
Saw a report on the news this morning the Queens official swan upper reports that numbers of Cygnets are seriously down after the count on the Thames this week. The count has been going down rapidly since 2015,he blames youth with air rifles,destruction of nests and American Mink,no mention of Otters.
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Also no mention of the one of the real reasons EU bank gypsies ??
( gangs of them now live on the banks of the Thames) that trap and eat them ?

they have even been found in Hyde park with a fire and a sack with dead swans plucked about to be cooked these people are from a country where its normal to trap and eat all ducks and Swans and of course any fish
 
Gerry Giles said:
Also no mention of the one of the real reasons EU bank gypsies ??
( gangs of them now live on the banks of the Thames) that trap and eat them ?

they have even been found in Hyde park with a fire and a sack with dead swans plucked about to be cooked these people are from a country where its normal to trap and eat all ducks and Swans and of course any fish
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21 Swans disappeared from a popular feeding spot on the Itchen last winter. Mallards also a bit scarce and they've gone right off of bread.
 
I feel its at a stage now with all these big fish turning up that possibly there is place for some otters? Now if it's your water, your fish, I understand you may feel differently. But I've always been a Naturalist first, and a fisherman next. I only mentioned to a chap fishing yesterday that the Purple Loosestrife beside him look amazing, but he really didn't care, fine! Almost all waters now are producing bigger fish, and wild waters like the Thames and Trent big fish are turning up all the time. In enclosed waters like carp lakes (man made) it's different, we don't need them in places people have invested time and money in. But wild waters, well I'm a little more pragmatic these days to be honest? A 50 lb fish has lived a long life and maybe seen the bank a few times, given pleasure too many. So if an otter family feed on an old fish at the end of its life, it was a natural occurrence. It's simply how I feel. Our club water that cannot afford fencing lost two big fish this year to an otter family, yes it bloody sad as both fish were big 30s. It's not the otters fault in this case, but the people that re-introduced them in the first place?
 
The Otter question is complex and right now no ones singing from the same sheet. There is an obvious problem, but when the loudest voices are by two polar opposites fixated on a macro view of the situation nothing will change.
 
Richard Barrett said:
I feel its at a stage now with all these big fish turning up that possibly there is place for some otters? Now if it's your water, your fish, I understand you may feel differently. But I've always been a Naturalist first, and a fisherman next. I only mentioned to a chap fishing yesterday that the Purple Loosestrife beside him look amazing, but he really didn't care, fine! Almost all waters now are producing bigger fish, and wild waters like the Thames and Trent big fish are turning up all the time. In enclosed waters like carp lakes (man made) it's different, we don't need them in places people have invested time and money in. But wild waters, well I'm a little more pragmatic these days to be honest? A 50 lb fish has lived a long life and maybe seen the bank a few times, given pleasure too many. So if an otter family feed on an old fish at the end of its life, it was a natural occurrence. It's simply how I feel. Our club water that cannot afford fencing lost two big fish this year to an otter family, yes it bloody sad as both fish were big 30s. It's not the otters fault in this case, but the people that re-introduced them in the first place?
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“An otter family feed on an old fish’

You obviously know nothing about otters ...
First of all how do we know an otter has taken a big fish .. because we find a carcass with a bite out of it... not a skeleton

And secondly just because a carp is 50 lb doesn’t make it old

I caught a common a few years back from eggets one of the originals from the stocking in the late 50.s it went 37.7 .... by your reckoning it should have been 200lb

Talking of wild rivers why not try fishing the ivel for a season then the wensum the season after then finally finish with a season on the gt Ouse then come back in 3 years and tell us how many barbel you caught
 
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Your argument doesn't stack up, if a 37lber is over 60 years old than a 50lber would also be old, if not older?

My local Brook, which I fly fish, is full of trout, grayling and chub, you could jump across in many places. I was stood in the middle of it last week when two otters swam right past me, 30 seconds later I caught a trout.
Otters have been in there for years, I still catch fairly regularly.
I'm no expert but it seems clear to me they obviously don't devastate all fisheries, but do seem to do well with fat, lazy fish full of boilies and pellets.
Evolution?
 
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Too many variables with carp growth and age. Different strains, water temperature, oxygen levels, food availability, male or female, pressured or neglected and if invidual fish are just out and out growers. Some fish will stay low weights all their life others can reach 50lb in little over a decade. Carp are to varied to write any hard or fast rules.
 
Rhys Perry said:
Your argument doesn't stack up, if a 37lber is over 60 years old than a 50lber would also be old, if not older?

My Club added 15 carp to one of our lakes on Feb 28th 2017,the fish were 9lb to 15lb. A mate caught the smallest fish (9lb when stocked) on December 2nd 2018 at 20lb 4oz. That fish had pt on over 11lb in 18 months and a couple of days,and is not at all gutty. Few anglers fish the lake in the winter and its never busy,though it has signal crayfish.These carp are specially bred and picked to increase weight fast,though their life expectancy is expected to be shorter.A mirror carp around 28lb was caught in Billing Aquadrome lake about 15 years ago.That fish had been caught in the late 1950's at 36lb. How old was she when last caught and how special was that one fish. I saw some horrible video and photos today from the Wasing estate two big carp missing just a couple of pounds of flesh,one still alive.Because its not happening on your stretch of river please do not turn a blind eye to what is happening. If they are not eating your Trout at the moment it means there is an easier food source.Eventually they will exhaust that and your trout will just disappear.
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Apparently a few people saw the 50 floating (dead) down the river before it came to a stop and was removed, and none of them reported any marks, bites or chunks taken out of it, so the likelihood is that the state it was in when the carcass was finally retrieved was caused by post-mortem predation and, possibly, boat propellers.

As I said earlier in the thread, cause of death is likely to have been natural causes, POSSIBLY poor handling after being caught again.
 
Steve Lewis said:
Apparently a few people saw the 50 floating (dead) down the river before it came to a stop and was removed, and none of them reported any marks, bites or chunks taken out of it, so the likelihood is that the state it was in when the carcass was finally retrieved was caused by post-mortem predation and, possibly, boat propellers.

As I said earlier in the thread, cause of death is likely to have been natural causes, POSSIBLY poor handling after being caught again.
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Yes I know the man who pulled it out of the river there was NO damage to it by otters or anything else !!
and Carp are not like Barbel so I would rule out poor handling all the people know their onions down there

as said previously it got caught 2 or 3 times after Nick so just the stress of it being an old fish also the vast amount of peanuts being pumped into the river literally barrels of them may be a contributing factor we will never know
 
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Rhys Perry said:
Your argument doesn't stack up, if a 37lber is over 60 years old than a 50lber would also be old, if not older?

My local Brook, which I fly fish, is full of trout, grayling and chub, you could jump across in many places. I was stood in the middle of it last week when two otters swam right past me, 30 seconds later I caught a trout.
Otters have been in there for years, I still catch fairly regularly.
I'm no expert but it seems clear to me they obviously don't devastate all fisheries, but do seem to do well with fat, lazy fish full of boilies and pellets.
Evolution?
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That’s exactly the point I’m trying to make you can’t tell a carps age from its weight
And you are right some rivers seem to have a natural balance the nene for example doesn’t seem to be affected by otters but then rivers like the ivel were decimated by otters in months
Trouble is any studies done were after the horse had bolted... for example the Martin salter / bs study was laughable
 
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