Richard Longmuir
Senior Member
Hi Graham,
That is my normal tactic however on some venues such as the Biblins espically below the wire bridge about 20% losses are unavoidable no matter what you do !!!
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Tethered Fish
- Thread starter Joe Fletcher
- Start date
That is my normal tactic however on some venues such as the Biblins espically below the wire bridge about 20% losses are unavoidable no matter what you do !!!
Alex Gowney
Senior Member & Supporter
Barbless hooks certainly can cause more damage than barbed during the fight and barbed are certainly more difficult to remove, so as Dave says catch 22. Have to say though that for pike barbless are surely safer. For other fish I am in the camp of barbed hooks doing less damage to the fishes mouth
Alex Gowney
Senior Member & Supporter
Nothing to do with anglers being inadequate mate, it's a matter of opinion usually based on peoples differing experiences.
David Tainton
Senior Member
Would have to say, I have never seen any damage caused by using barbless hooks in any fishes mouth that I have caught-once the fish is hooked, the bend is where all the pressure is-this pressure is constant-the same for barbed/barbless, again I simply do not see damage to a fishes mouth. Again each to his own, but I like the fact that 9/10 my hooks fall out of a fishes mouth when safely in the net (I have seen some serious tugging/tearing when someone inexperienced tries to remove a barbed hook), and if I lose the odd fish-which I did tonight!(shed the hook) I might have a minor Tourettes moment, but hey ho. I was having a minor debate on the bank with a friend-luckily hooked and landed a fish, and then asked my mucker to point out any damage-none to see. I know this is a trial with an N=1, but I could have hooked and landed a hundred fish and the outcome the same.
Cheers DT
Cheers DT
Alex Gowney
Senior Member & Supporter
It all depends on personal experience of each angler. Using individual fisheries rules as guidelines for damage is a bit hit and miss as not everyone observes the rules.I would still say though, that given their tendancy to swallow baits quickly at times, barbless would be safer for pike.
David Gauntlett
Senior Member
Exactly so Alex. One of life's little quirks is that we all judge things based on our early experiences with them, without taking into account various circumstances that can put a bias on our thinking when we first try something. The old adage 'There are lies, bloody lies and statistics' is spot on here, as ever. If we view thing in a certain way, it is all to easy to find 'evidence' to support our thoughts. The problem is, it is equally easy for someone with the opposite view to find just as much 'evidence' to support their slant on things....hence the heated disagreements on here (or anywhere else of course) about any item you care to mention.
I think that all you can do is stick to the rules of the fishery you are on, because that is what you agree to do when you join the club or whatever body controls that fishery. In my case, doing so caused a dramatic reversal in my pre conceived opinions on barbless hooks. Having said that, my main objection to barbed hooks is the increased levels of pain and difficulty involved in removing one when it is buried up to the bend in your finger. I can't help thinking that when I struggled to remove a barbed hook from a fish (as I have done on countless occasions in the past ) that the fish may well be thinking along the same lines
Perhaps micro barbed hooks are a reasonable all round alternative?
Cheers, Dave.
Alex Gowney
Senior Member & Supporter
Perhaps micro barbed hooks are a reasonable all round alternative?
Yes Dave I agree
Yes Dave I agree
Jon Frisby
Senior Member & Supporter
Micro barbed Teflon rapiers for me never let me down. When I first got into Barbelling Muggas were the rage. The biggest barbs I had ever seen and an absolute cow bag to get out of old rubberlips.
David Hall
Senior Member
starpoint micro were the hook i always used for stronger fish, now i just use barbless, won't use anything else myself.
Ian Barker
Member
Read with interest the above topic , snag fishing rigs quick release clips , rocky swims .
First an foremost quick release C links by interprise do not work partically in rocky boulder swims iv tried them they don't work .Some of these boulders can be up to 2 foot high .Reason they don't work is because only few inches between main line clip an lead , hence the main line is drawn into rocks as well , when pulling for lead to release chances are the pressure is on mainline around rocks as well .
Why do most barbel anglers have the lead / feeder direct to release clip ., most I see not even a release clip any way , because its a mindset that's how it is in the write ups . WRONG .
The answer is simple thing about it forget the release enterprise clips , tie a weak link of mono 6pound line to your free running ring at least 2 foot long , used in conjunction with a long hooklengh 3 to 4 feet long works perfect for me , I have never had the hooklength tangle with weak mono link .
To maximise not snagging use a bait ie luncheon meat with hook buried in bait .
On powerfulll an rocky rivers like trent idea is use heavy lead 5 to 6 oz to when hits bottom stays put , more moves more chance of finding boulders.
With the 2 foot weak mono link the main line should be above the rocks .
An if losing leads is issue get some old lead piping as I do , push I single strand copper earth wire in to form loop , bash flat with lump hammer an theres your lead . If got no lead go scrap yard they sell it you for few pound a kilo .Can even wrap some paste around it when cast out .
A 10 mm length of lead pipe equals 1 oz 20 mm is 2oz 30 mm is 3oz an so on .
Using this method I only lose the lead 9 times out of 10 .
Using this method with 2 half test rods , large lead that holds bottom its sit an wait , does not matter if lead in rocks , when barbel takes the 2 foot weak mono an lead breaks free .
If I feel the rocks are denser an deeper would not hesitate to use a 3 foot weak link , with a 5 foot hooklength .
Most rivers in general are snaggy any way an I feel this weak link method should be standard to all barbel anglers who care about the fish , an to move away from the lead direct close to the mainline , as stated throughout this topic when you lose all your tackle , a baited hook left for a barbel to pick up , not good ,
First an foremost quick release C links by interprise do not work partically in rocky boulder swims iv tried them they don't work .Some of these boulders can be up to 2 foot high .Reason they don't work is because only few inches between main line clip an lead , hence the main line is drawn into rocks as well , when pulling for lead to release chances are the pressure is on mainline around rocks as well .
Why do most barbel anglers have the lead / feeder direct to release clip ., most I see not even a release clip any way , because its a mindset that's how it is in the write ups . WRONG .
The answer is simple thing about it forget the release enterprise clips , tie a weak link of mono 6pound line to your free running ring at least 2 foot long , used in conjunction with a long hooklengh 3 to 4 feet long works perfect for me , I have never had the hooklength tangle with weak mono link .
To maximise not snagging use a bait ie luncheon meat with hook buried in bait .
On powerfulll an rocky rivers like trent idea is use heavy lead 5 to 6 oz to when hits bottom stays put , more moves more chance of finding boulders.
With the 2 foot weak mono link the main line should be above the rocks .
An if losing leads is issue get some old lead piping as I do , push I single strand copper earth wire in to form loop , bash flat with lump hammer an theres your lead . If got no lead go scrap yard they sell it you for few pound a kilo .Can even wrap some paste around it when cast out .
A 10 mm length of lead pipe equals 1 oz 20 mm is 2oz 30 mm is 3oz an so on .
Using this method I only lose the lead 9 times out of 10 .
Using this method with 2 half test rods , large lead that holds bottom its sit an wait , does not matter if lead in rocks , when barbel takes the 2 foot weak mono an lead breaks free .
If I feel the rocks are denser an deeper would not hesitate to use a 3 foot weak link , with a 5 foot hooklength .
Most rivers in general are snaggy any way an I feel this weak link method should be standard to all barbel anglers who care about the fish , an to move away from the lead direct close to the mainline , as stated throughout this topic when you lose all your tackle , a baited hook left for a barbel to pick up , not good ,
Graham Elliott
Senior Member & Supporter
Thank you Ian for telling us all what to do, however as a regular Wye fisher as well as Trent and Severn my view is just advisory.
There is no problem IMO in using enterprise snag free links.
I use them with a soft link swivel that will invariably open up first. If it doesn't the link goes.
The biggest problem in my opinion is overlong hook link lengths.
No needed if you feed properly. Also anglers that are new to big rocky rivers allowing the fish too much line with the rod held low.
Pretty obvious really.
There is no problem IMO in using enterprise snag free links.
I use them with a soft link swivel that will invariably open up first. If it doesn't the link goes.
The biggest problem in my opinion is overlong hook link lengths.
No needed if you feed properly. Also anglers that are new to big rocky rivers allowing the fish too much line with the rod held low.
Pretty obvious really.
Terry Harman
Senior Member & Supporter
I always use barbless (gardener targets) never dropped a fish on one and never seen any damage.... a good alternative is pallatrax gripz have bought some but not tried them yet
Terry Harman
Senior Member & Supporter
Gerry Giles
Senior Member & Supporter
I am an ex carp angler and regarding damage caused by hooks .........there are now very few water both here and Europe that have a barbless hook rule as its been found a micro barbed hook cause far less damage full stop
you must remember we are talking fish costing £700 to many many thousands each fish !!!
in fact ~I believe probably the biggest fishery owners here were Cemex and a few years ago they bought out a barbless only rule it didnt last long !!!! they banned barbless due to the massive crease in mouth damage a micro barb holds the hook still stops it twistingand slashing
you must remember we are talking fish costing £700 to many many thousands each fish !!!
in fact ~I believe probably the biggest fishery owners here were Cemex and a few years ago they bought out a barbless only rule it didnt last long !!!! they banned barbless due to the massive crease in mouth damage a micro barb holds the hook still stops it twistingand slashing
John Hasler
Senior Member
Is it possible the hook damage occurs due to the hook pattern and rig being used. Curved hooks, 360 rig, Ronnie rig etc?
Ian Grant
Senior Member & Supporter
There are several ways in which a fish can be tethered, and no rig is 100% safe ! So called safety clips will only work if the lead itself has become jammed, with the fish able to pull directly to the rod tip, the lead ( in theory ) should then pull out of it's clip freeing the fish. If the line has become entangled above or below the lead forcing the angler to pull for a break the lead will not release unless it is not pushed onto the hook length swivel, thereby becoming a running lead anyway, and still would not release off the safety clip.
If the lead is free running and the line has become entangled, or the lead has become jammed, and the angler pulls for a break, then especially with mono in water the line will be far more likely to run though leaving the lead by passing through the eye of it's swivel, however the nature of braid means that it's far more likely to find a grip to a snag especially if severely wrapped round it... not impossible with mono either. As Graham Elliot has said overly long hook lengths can create their own problems too.
Barbless hooks obviously give the fish the chance of shaking free, but i would say not without damage but obviously maybe the better of two evils. However i would never place a bait in a position where i would think i had to rely on that option in presuming there would be a very good chance of a Barbel becoming snagged. Barbless hooks DO cause mouth damage, for some reason Carp seem to suffer the worst, the hook is able to partially withdraw when pressure slackens, and re enter often making another entry below the surface of the skin, and again often finding a shallower hold and sometimes therefore tearing out.
Tethering a fish is a risk that we all take by the nature of what we do, but we can massively reduce the risk by careful consideration of where we place our hook bait, and further reduce the risk by considering the tackle we use, some i know do neither and are just asking for trouble..... Accepting the inexperienced of course, but reading, taking advice from the experienced, and stopping to think should set them on the right track.
If the lead is free running and the line has become entangled, or the lead has become jammed, and the angler pulls for a break, then especially with mono in water the line will be far more likely to run though leaving the lead by passing through the eye of it's swivel, however the nature of braid means that it's far more likely to find a grip to a snag especially if severely wrapped round it... not impossible with mono either. As Graham Elliot has said overly long hook lengths can create their own problems too.
Barbless hooks obviously give the fish the chance of shaking free, but i would say not without damage but obviously maybe the better of two evils. However i would never place a bait in a position where i would think i had to rely on that option in presuming there would be a very good chance of a Barbel becoming snagged. Barbless hooks DO cause mouth damage, for some reason Carp seem to suffer the worst, the hook is able to partially withdraw when pressure slackens, and re enter often making another entry below the surface of the skin, and again often finding a shallower hold and sometimes therefore tearing out.
Tethering a fish is a risk that we all take by the nature of what we do, but we can massively reduce the risk by careful consideration of where we place our hook bait, and further reduce the risk by considering the tackle we use, some i know do neither and are just asking for trouble..... Accepting the inexperienced of course, but reading, taking advice from the experienced, and stopping to think should set them on the right track.
Howard Cooke
Senior Member
Good post that Ian. And I completely share your view regarding where or where not to place the bait and Graham’s comment regarding hook length.
Ian Barker
Member
Well graham liked your bit about the weak cheap link swivel that makes sense to me , an if you read my post it also makes sense what I have put .
As to telling you all what to do , cant see that happening as most are set in ways with way fish .
I can only advise whats worked for me in rocky boulder swims an the quick release clips do not work , I can only advise to try quick release clip close to main line , an try my method of 2 to 3 foot weak 6 pound link an see what works best for yourself .
It must also be noted when fishing rocky boulder swims note to let out too much slack line , more slack out more chance main line going around rocks .
Fishing a 2 to 3 foot weak 6 pound mono link if you get snagged in rocks with lead it will def snap an you will get hooklength back .
If you don't an main line breaks the hook has caught a wooden tree trunk log with offshoot branches that you can not do much about , except fish a bait with hook in bait , that's the best you can do .
One thing is certain if its just the lead caught in rocks boulders with 2 to 3 foot six pound mono link , it will break free without doubt .
As to telling you all what to do , cant see that happening as most are set in ways with way fish .
I can only advise whats worked for me in rocky boulder swims an the quick release clips do not work , I can only advise to try quick release clip close to main line , an try my method of 2 to 3 foot weak 6 pound link an see what works best for yourself .
It must also be noted when fishing rocky boulder swims note to let out too much slack line , more slack out more chance main line going around rocks .
Fishing a 2 to 3 foot weak 6 pound mono link if you get snagged in rocks with lead it will def snap an you will get hooklength back .
If you don't an main line breaks the hook has caught a wooden tree trunk log with offshoot branches that you can not do much about , except fish a bait with hook in bait , that's the best you can do .
One thing is certain if its just the lead caught in rocks boulders with 2 to 3 foot six pound mono link , it will break free without doubt .