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Tactics in fast coloured water?

John Newman

John Newman

Senior Member
This is my first season of serious barbel fishing and I have enjoyed reasonable success over the summer on a river not noted for it barbel but limited to some faster flowing backwaters and weirpools. Most fish have come to 15mm halibut boilies and I have loose fed 4mm halibut pellets and broken bolies via a baitdropper or just chucked in up stream a little.

Now we have colour in the water and heavier flows I am wondering if I need to alter my tactics as I reckon any loose feed is going to get washed way down stream away from my hookbait.

Should I be making up some nice smelly cheese paste (as per the "Cheese Paste Recipe" post) and waiting for the fish to locate it or should I be doing something else?
 
Smelly baits for sure!

Cheese is a classic barbel bait but not in use so much by many a modern barbelist.

The magic meat has been working wonders for me this season.

Sausage is an old favourite or you can try something more modern.

Loose feed little and often is my advice. When the water gets cold then very little and not so often. Just make sure it hits the river bed with the dropper or packed into a feeder. Liquids can help get the scent trail going.

If the flow is really up then a big hook bait should give off enough scent to be found by your quarry.

All in all, if you have been enjoying success already it will likely continue if the conditions are right.

Stephen
 
If you fish with meat, but are not a fan of feeders (like me). I've found threading three or four smaller sized pieces of meat onto a doubled up length of PVA tape, which you then attach to the hook works well. This gets the meat down to bottom, which then trundles off downstream with current in line with your hookbait. Especially effective when the river is in flood, as you are not guessing where your loose feed is going to end up.
 
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No way would I through loose feed in by hand even in low flow.I would just worry to much about pushing the fish down stream following the feed. Use a baitdropper' feeder or PVA to try and minimise this.
 
Paul Monaghan said:
I've found threading three or four smaller sized pieces of meat onto a doubled up length of PVA tape, which you then attach to the hook works well.

Mmmmm not thought of that one Paul . .
I take a bait size piece of meat and crush it in to small bits , mix with a few
pellets to keep it seperated and put the lot in a PVA bag and attach to the lead . i am not trying to feed the fish just get a bit of meat smell down there.
However this is a point that I never can quite work out , when it is time to recast meat do you a, use a new fresh piece of bait that should be smellier or
b, use the same piece that shoul be less conspicuous because it has been in the water longer ? To be honest I dont think it makes a lot of difference but
it is something that bugs me.
Click to expand...
 
A blockend feeder packed with anything you like (meat, pellets, boilies) designed to not actually let feed out but just a scent trail very close to your hookbait. It works well.
 
Richard Borley said:
Paul Monaghan said:
I've found threading three or four smaller sized pieces of meat onto a doubled up length of PVA tape, which you then attach to the hook works well.

Mmmmm not thought of that one Paul . .
I take a bait size piece of meat and crush it in to small bits , mix with a few
pellets to keep it seperated and put the lot in a PVA bag and attach to the lead . i am not trying to feed the fish just get a bit of meat smell down there.
However this is a point that I never can quite work out , when it is time to recast meat do you a, use a new fresh piece of bait that should be smellier or
b, use the same piece that shoul be less conspicuous because it has been in the water longer ? To be honest I dont think it makes a lot of difference but
it is something that bugs me.
Click to expand...

Hi Richard. As you are no doubt aware, that is a question that has bothered most thinking carp anglers for a very long time. It has been discussed a thousand times, on dozens of forums, and by countless independent groups...but never to my knowledge definitively answered. Some carpers feel that a new, smelly bait is best, as the fish in any situation would have long been aware of any old bait in their vicinity, and if they hadn't taken it after several hours, then it must be that for some reason the fish were suspicious of it. Others prefer the theory that the fish would be suspicious of a new bait, that in fact given more time, the fish would have overcome any fears regarding the old bait, and it may eventually have been taken. That group of anglers would go to great lengths to keep hook baits in a container of the water from the lake involved, until they thought them sufficiently 'washed out', should the need arise to rebait.

Tim Paisley, the publisher of 'Carp world', once said that he lost count of how many times he had an almost instant take after casting out a fresh new bait to a spot where his old bait had previously lain untouched for hours...in fact he recast all his rods every morning for just that reason. Other carpers would claim that to do that was carping suicide, that the baits should be left undisturbed until they were taken...or it was time to go home. Personally, I tried both methods extensively...but could come to no firm conclusions. I tend to think now that if thousands of concerned carpers tested this issue for tens of years, and no absolute trends were discovered...then it either varies from water to water...or even fish to fish. Truth is, if this issue is that inconclusive, then it probably doesn't matter a toss :D If it were conclusively provable one way or the other, it would have been proven by now...and it hasn't been. I think I am safe in saying that the same thing almost undoubtedly applies to barbel.

But I could be wrong :D:D

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...
 
David ,

I am a 'leave it out there ' believer .
When Barbel fishing I try and only have one cast , as long as I think it is the right spot .
What is the point in winding in and chucking out again to the same spot ?
All you do is cause disturbance .
The only reason for recasting , especially meat in flood conditions ,
is that there is too much **** on the line.

Richard
 
See the beginning of " Codbelling " thread, and use a big smelly lump of meat or several lobworms on a size 2!


As ever

Hugo



 
Richard, I can't agree entirely, but I can't argue with your catches either. I am aware of your history and that you are a top class angler...I genuinely wish I could claim the same. Also, I am not familiar with the waters you fish, and I know they vary. However, on my regular river, all I can say is that I have not found it to be so. Midnight on the glorious 16th, 2010, I cast my baited tackle into a river for the first time in nearly 20 years. Having decided to leave carping for a while and get back to my roots...I was having my first serious try for barbel for a LONG time. I had pre-baited with a quality boilie for three weeks, and had my first bite at roughly 2 minutes past midnight. I caught 5 that night, an 8+, a 9+ and three doubles to 11.08, and missed several bites. Each fish came to those boilies, with two halves on the hair and a small PVA bag of crumbled baits...and each bite came within a minute of casting in. I tried leaving it much longer when things slowed down, but to no avail...rebait, recast...an instant bite, until the shoal had had enough and moved on...as did I in the morning.

Since that time I have used meat, because having retired I could no longer afford quality boilies...but the pattern of cast/bite has frequently been repeated. Not always...but often enough to convince me that the fish were NOT usually too disturbed by recasting. I must admit though, that for some reason, in one swim only on that water...it DOES pay to cast and wait...there is no explaining fish is there :D However, that is my bit of river...and no doubt it is different to yours in that way. Circumstances have stopped me fishing more than a maximum 10 times a year since then...less than that in fact when I look back, but I have managed to up my PB to 15.03, with lots of back-up fish not too far behind...so...it works for me. However, I would be the first to admit that I would undoubtedly fail miserably on your waters :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Richard Borley said:
However this is a point that I never can quite work out , when it is time to recast meat do you a, use a new fresh piece of bait that should be smellier or
b, use the same piece that should be less conspicuous because it has been in the water longer ? To be honest I dont think it makes a lot of difference but
it is something that bugs me.
Click to expand...

I'm of the thinking that a fresh bait is smellier and normally a better bet than a washed out one. In flood conditions this become more important. That said I don't normally change the bait every cast but maybe after two or three.

In the feeder I tend to use small samples. On the last trip I used scalded pellet mixed with ground hemp and a little hemp oil to plug an open feeder and either some mixes pellet, hemp, small pieces of meat or broken boilies depending what was on the hook at the time.

Stephen
 
I have differing opinions and experiences on this one ! On a smaller river, in flood, I would tend to cast a chunk of meat or glugged boilie to a likely looking spot and leave it until the debris pulls it out of place. My next cast would be with a fresh bait to a different part of the swim........................I'm figuring that there is only likely to be one or two fish around at best and therefore I want them to find my hookbait !!!! NOT loose offerings !
On a larger river, with a good head of fish such as the Wye or Severn, I would use a feeder of suitable loading, packed with scalded pellets and a few larger free offerings (pellets/mini boilies). In general I would use a nice oily, smelly pellet as hookbait. I would re-cast regardless every 20 mins or so ! Also generally I cast to the same spot to 'build the swim'
My reasoning behind this being that there are likely to be more fish about and I'm looking to get them nosing around for food, creating competition and hopefully finding my hookbait.

The thing to remember in flooded rivers is that, if it's mild, the fish will be on the munch ! They will be expending energy, so need to feed !
Think like a Barbel ! Would you sit out in the flow getting slapped in the face by debris every 30 seconds, or behind a snag ?!?
Oh and floodwater Barbel ain't tackle-shy lol
If you can get a bait in the water and hold bottom, then you are in with a chance !
One other point I will make, is that I believe that Barbel, particularly on big rivers are not at all bothered by the spladoooosh of a big lead ! I think curiousity gets the better of them and that's why bites often come just after casting out !?!?!?!
Regards,
Paul M.
 
Quick question, would a bait stored in brine work? Just wondered about the salt content and whether that would put freshwater fish off. Cheers.
 
Interesting thread lads.

My opinion (for what it's worth).

Re - washed out baits - do you honestly think a barbel examines a piece of meat and thinks to itself Nah, that bait is so fresh so it's too suspicious to eat...or Nah, that old bait has lost 20% of it's flavour so I wont eat it?????? :confused:

Re - leaving baits out for a long time to save disturbance - how many time have you made a first cast and caught a barbel within 10 minutes? Many times I wager. :)


Richard, me thinks there's plenty of cr4p coming down now. :p
 
Lee Poultney said:
Quick question, would a bait stored in brine work? Just wondered about the salt content and whether that would put freshwater fish off. Cheers.
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Lee, a large percentage of commercial boilie mixes have salt added...some to alarmingly high levels. A lot of people add salt to their own boilie mixes, in spod mixes, groundbait, hemp...you name it. Many anglers swear by it as an additive and put it in everything. In fact, at least one of the big bait manufacturers...not wanting to miss a trick when something is proving popular...has bought out their own salt. In little pots at silly prices of course. So no...it doesn't put freshwater fish off.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Hi Richard,
i agree entirely with the method that you have just stated, cast and leave it as long as you can, if you have cast into an area where Barbel frequent, then it's just a matter of time whether you get a bite or not, if the Barbel are there and are ready to feed, then you chances are good.
Over the past couple of weeks the conditions on the Stour at Throop have been very challenging, very high coloured water and at times a lot of weed and rubbish being swept down, i was in daily contact with Keith Little whose method is to cast and wait, over the period Keith landed 6 Barbel, three of these fish weighed over 12lb, plus a last cast fish of 13lb 7ozs and plus a few Chub, on his last day which was yesterday, he landed two Chub, the best weighing in at 6lb10ozs and that big Barbel, and to fish some of the swims he had two wade through very high water.
Keith is not the only angler that adopts the method of cast and wait,and the other anglers that use this method are also quite successful, so apart from this method, then the only other way is to walk the banks rolling meat, or the upstream casting as used by Trefor West, a heavy lead cast upstream leaving a bow in the line, once the lead has settled it can then be worked in a straight line downstream, and again a very successful method.
Myself, these days i just prefer to sit and wait, the other two methods play havoc with my back.
So whatever method you use, just enjoy your fishing.
Brian.
 
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Thanks for all the replies.

I had not thought of using a blockend feeder to create a scent trail so that one is worth trying. Someone mentioned "scalding the pellets". What is the method for doing this?

I have already been given the tip on Garlic Spam and apart from one barbel all the fish I have taken on it have been chub. Perhaps cutting some of that up into little pieces and putting in a feeder would be a good plan. I also coated some in curry powder but tried this on a new and untried stretch last week so may see if it works on my home territory.

May give the stinky cheese paste a go too. River is even higher and more coloured since my last visit so hoping for no more rain between now and my trip on Monday.
 
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