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Stillwater Barbel in the Media

This is great, it's like groundhog day. But then it's bound to happen while everyones favorite single species group is giving it the same old rhetoric but to a new intake of disciples.

I say let them have the debate and see if it comes up with any new conclusions or indeed evidence, one way or the other, if life in a still-water is detrimental to the health of a barbel or if they can live perfectly happily without running water.
 
Adrian Williams said:
This is great, it's like groundhog day. But then it's bound to happen while everyones favorite single species group is giving it the same old rhetoric but to a new intake of disciples.
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There's an irony there Adrian...
 
i was chatting to some of the local match lads in the pub last week after one of them 'bagging' over 100lb of barbel that day, i said to him "yeah, but they're not real barbel are they.
my god i wish i hadn't said anything, he really went off on one, .........you river anglers think you know everything about fish .................etc...................its a 'f'-ing fish whats the problem, in the end i just agreed to disagree left him to spend his winnings on beer.
 
We are faced with poor recruitment, multiple predation more invasive species than you can shake a stick at and we are still bickering like kids in the playground about none issues like this.
If you smash a plasma screen can you slash your wrists with the wreckage?
 
Aren't most F1 carp sterile ? I can't imagine many fish spawn in commercials so I see no reason why it's an argument against stocking barbel.
 
I know of two local waters that were stocked with large quantities of barbel around 20 years ago. To my knowledge, they have died out at both venues within probably 7 or 8 years. This would suggest to me that thet DON'T do so well in stillwaters as some are suggesting?

Maybe it has to do with stocking levels/available oxygen that they "appear" to do well in some venues?

You cannot get away from the fact that the species is designed to live in a river environment and putting them in any other environment is taking them out of their "comfort zone".

Maybe the boffins can design a "carbel" to keep everybody happy!

regards,

Jeff
 
Certainly some interesting views and I can see both sides of the argument, I think the media do not help with the terms "baggin up" and the odd trophy shot with half a dozen Barbel in a landing net, I was stressing how this is now more of the norm in publications.

I appreciate this looks like a single species discussion, however this is BFW and there maybe more pressing matters regarding the future of angling...maybe this will be the future of Barbel fishing in the future ( I hope not).

But certainly it is an issue worth discussing or we could end with another What landing net pole thread.
 
Jeff Edisbury said:
You cannot get away from the fact that the species is designed to live in a river environment and putting them in any other environment is taking them out of their "comfort zone".
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Aren't all freshwater species designed to live in rivers? How else would they become widespread?
 
Yes Sam, I'm sure they could all find spots in a river where they feel comfortable. It isn't the same the other way around though. Have you ever had a salmon from a lake? On the Hampshire Avon where I fish, barbel are often seen in the same spots as salmon, they prefer the faster more oxygenated water. You don't find carp and tench inhabiting these areas, they clearly prefer slacker water where available. My point is that a lake is not natural habitat for a barbel, wether or not it can survive for a few years or not?

If you fish rivers for "naturalised carp" that were probably spawned there, they are more than likely long and relatively lean fish in comparison to their lake dwelling water pig grossly overweight cousins that would struggle to survive in the same areas as these fish due to the physical dimensions and inherent drag due to the lack of aerodynamics.

So long as there is a demand for barbel in stillwaters, they will continue to be stocked but as they cannot breed in stillwaters, in the long term, they are unlikely to become more widespread.

Fred Crouch makes some interesting observations in the latest barbel fisher magazine on the effect of pellets on barbel and the likelihood that these huge female fish would struggle to spawn effectively due to their physical dimensions. Whether you agree or not with Fred, he does come up with a valid argument about the lack of juvenile barbel recruitment in our rivers.

Putting barbel into stillwaters would only serve to speed up this process making the fish prone to unhealthy bloated weight gains as well as the effect of not being able to spawn successfully due to lack of suitable habitat causing the fish to become spawnbound and likely to die as a result.

If people want to fish for stillwater barbel, there is little I can do to stop them but for me, I just smile and think...........it's not "barbel fishing" is it? And if anyone thinks it is then I would love to hear your reasons why you might think that!

Regards,

Jeff
 
Sam Lloyd said:
Aren't all freshwater species designed to live in rivers? How else would they become widespread?
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Its been suggested that new waters are first colonised by the eggs sticking to birds legs and transferring that way Sam.

The question we should be asking is who 'designed' them?
 
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Why do people continue to get quite so worked up about this? If these were fish that were nicked from rivers, I may understand the angst. I appreciate that this was a genuine concern at a certain point in time. Ten to fifteen years back, there was a genuine concern that barbel would suffer, and even die, in stillwaters. That argument is all but destroyed. I can't say that I have any desire to target a stillwater barbel, as some suggest, it's still not quite cricket. However, I've no objections to them being in stillwaters. Besides, the vast majority of stocked barbel come from Calverton. There's a good chance that the profits from the venture actually subsidise the stocking of barbel into rivers. That I'm absolutely all for. If ten barbel in a stillwater puts an extra one in a river, fantastic, give us more stillwater barbel.
 
Jeff, There are plenty of lakes in Canada and some in Maine which have naturally occurring landlocked Salmon. Believed to be survivors of the last ice age these fish are genetically identical to the Atlantic salmon and spend all their lives in fresh water heading for the shallows to spawn.
There are also plenty of salmon caught from lakes in Ireland and I could probably find a few in mainland Britain as well if i could be bothered to do the research.
I could pick holes all the way through the rest of your post as well if I had a will to but tbh I cant be bothered.
I like Fred and his first book understanding Barbel was for a long time the definitive textbook on the species but he is a bit of a tinker and does come up with some strange theories; his thoughts on barbels sense of 'smell' and their inability to eat crayfish being two which stick in my mind. I tend to take most of what he says with a pinch of salt.

Edit, Good post above, Chris.
 
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I've no doubt Adrian about the Salmon, I'm sure the lakes they live in are truly vast and deep and wild, not your average commercial stock pond full of F1's?

I know what you mean about Fred but apart from the smell issue, i do think this latest theory may have some validity and there is some reasonable science behind it with regard to the biomass of a fishery? it is still just a theory though. as for the crayfish, I agree with him 100%!

I'm sure you could pick holes all through my post, Its not really what this forum is for though is it, although some on here seem to think it is? Whilst I'm always happy to receive constructive criticism, I find the thought of people picking holes in the posts of others an entirely pointless excercise.

Regards,

Jeff
 
Jeff Edisbury said:
Yes Sam, I'm sure they could all find spots in a river where they feel comfortable. It isn't the same the other way around though. Have you ever had a salmon from a lake? On the Hampshire Avon where I fish, barbel are often seen in the same spots as salmon, they prefer the faster more oxygenated water. You don't find carp and tench inhabiting these areas, they clearly prefer slacker water where available. My point is that a lake is not natural habitat for a barbel, wether or not it can survive for a few years or not?

If you fish rivers for "naturalised carp" that were probably spawned there, they are more than likely long and relatively lean fish in comparison to their lake dwelling water pig grossly overweight cousins that would struggle to survive in the same areas as these fish due to the physical dimensions and inherent drag due to the lack of aerodynamics.

So long as there is a demand for barbel in stillwaters, they will continue to be stocked but as they cannot breed in stillwaters, in the long term, they are unlikely to become more widespread.

Fred Crouch makes some interesting observations in the latest barbel fisher magazine on the effect of pellets on barbel and the likelihood that these huge female fish would struggle to spawn effectively due to their physical dimensions. Whether you agree or not with Fred, he does come up with a valid argument about the lack of juvenile barbel recruitment in our rivers.

Putting barbel into stillwaters would only serve to speed up this process making the fish prone to unhealthy bloated weight gains as well as the effect of not being able to spawn successfully due to lack of suitable habitat causing the fish to become spawnbound and likely to die as a result.

If people want to fish for stillwater barbel, there is little I can do to stop them but for me, I just smile and think...........it's not "barbel fishing" is it? And if anyone thinks it is then I would love to hear your reasons why you might think that!

Regards,

Jeff
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Hi Jeff

Some would say it's not barbel fishing unless you are using a pin and cane, and certainly not if you angle for them in a Pond. Some might sneer at those that fish for trout with a worm or even a nymph, or to catch them in a 'commercial' is just not on.

Personally I would never wish to fish for Barbel in a still water, they are more than anything the fish of flowing Rivers, and to me that is the appeal of the species.

But other's are not 'purists', and see fish as just, well fish I suppose, and care little about the different species, habitat, and are not at all romantic about fishing. By romantic I include Issac Walton, Crabtree and the like, and almost all on here, who do not fish for Kudas or monetry gain, but fish to be integral with nature and to as I believe as they do up North the 'craic' and a Pie or three.

What I do know is that you will never change peoples ideas, especially with fishing, the match mentality is a strong bond as is the reasons that we fish the Rivers for Barbel, 'they' are a different species, and if you need evidence tune into Fish 'O' Mania, now that has more in common with darts than Angling. :(
 
what happens when one of these lake caught barbel topples the British record?

surely with all the hnv baits that the carp boys pile in, its only a matter of time before they are catching deep bellied fat boy barbel?

Will we see a separate list for stillwater barbel?
 
Chris Cheshire said:
what happens when one of these lake caught barbel topples the British record?

surely with all the hnv baits that the carp boys pile in, its only a matter of time before they are catching deep bellied fat boy barbel?

Will we see a separate list for stillwater barbel?
Click to expand...

Sounds awful Chris, I guess the man to ask would be Dave Mason and his team.

And yes it is ;)
 
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