So what has changed?

[Edward Adcock]

Everything has changed...

...and it's not going to change back. I made a conscious effort to stop mourning last year and 'try' to make the most of what's around me river wise while I still can. I'll write up the experience when the season ends.

 

[Mark Walker]

Just read through this whole thread with a lot of sadness. I left the UK in 2009 after 6 happy years fishing the Avon, Stour and Kennet with odd trips elsewhere. One season I caught barbel from 6 different rivers. I miss it constantly, sitting on a summer evening watching the sunset and nature come alive, or the short winter days swim hopping knowing that 5:45 would be the start of witching hour. Even then on the river I fished I only caught one barbel under 5lbs, there were just no small fish to fill the gap. Habitat destruction, abstraction and pollution took their toll but we were blinded by the remaining big fish. Otters and fish dying out seem to have killed them and now I believe none of those rivers are a shadow of their former selves.

For what it’s worth in my short time in the US I have seen exactly the same thing. I fished a river in the Rocky Mountains with a population of rare natural greenback cutthroat trout. First session I caught almost a fish a cast. Two years later they were gone, eaten by anglers. I have fished for steelhead, the fish of 1000 casts. Steelhead populations today are less than 1% of what they were in 1950. Dams destroying spawning grounds and preventing fish getting upstream to spawn, mining in the upper streams sending toxins downstream, hatchery fish slowly diluting the genes of natural fish, “harvesting” of fish at unsustainable levels, netting of other species catching steelhead as a biproduct, the list is endless. At the same time angling pressure grows year on year.

I don’t know the solution. I support financially and with letters and e-mails to politicians numerous conservation orgs and small wins happen. I’m concerned it’s not enough and my planned retirement will be fishless. I don’t know what my kids and eventually grandkids will have left but we continue to fight.

Tight lines all

Mark

 

[Neil Smart]

The last 4 weeks I have spent 3 in hospital, plenty of time to reflect and catch up on video's such as the wonderful Mark Erdwin offerings. He really sums it up for me in his approach, although barbel are in decline in his area too, he shakes things up by doing, what we all used to do as kids, just fish simply. The latest clip on Roach on a small river, encapsulates why we fish, and his boyish exuberance is a joy. I suppose, if I can, is to get back to the beginnings, and not be so single minded about one species.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Hi men ,

Agree Neil , iv sort of got a plan , a pattern I have due to the time available . You know sight fishing for barbel was our love , big or small it mattered not , and also winter fishing on the Teme and Kennet . So with the way we want to fish we are cutting our cloths a bit . Sue cut it right out . Me , well with my limited time and lack of carp waters where I can fish how I like I realised that float fishing for perch on the canal is realistic . I could catch bigger by quiver tipping etc , but there is a pleasure in the style as well as the capture .
Any longer sessions I'm trying to find utopia , a carp lake I like , no nitwits , just the ability to move when needed . I'm trying to get a ticket to a lake I fished in the 90s , but HS2 might beat me to it . I'm currently sitting on a well known catfish water that has a head of carp , nothing big , but iv moved once already , only one person here , and iv had a few bites just so I know what a carp looks like .

It seems that unless you can travel to rivers that are better stocked , the demise of barbel in my area means you can only fish for what's left through grinding it out , or fish for what's in front of you with chub or perch .


Hope you're feeling better Neil


Hattet

 

[Damian Kimmins]

A superb , heart felt epitaph for a barbel fishers life summarized in a few words, so what has changed Paul? Everything has changed that's what.
I see the same problems on midlands rivers, emphasized by the lack of or significantly reduced numbers of barbel, my rivers haven't got a signal Crayfish problem, the Teme, the Severn, the Lugg, the Wye, the Warwickshire Avon, the Mease, the Anchor, the Upper-Trent, the Tern, the Dove and the Derwent have however one significant burgeoning, unstainable common problem and that is the Otter. I think our stories of the numbers of barbel, the size of barbel, memories of tranquil settings of sitting behind a rod, a chunk of meat over a bed of hemp will be consigned to the history book at some time, like tales of yore, but still there are those that deny the problems that engulf and consume us. Everything has changed Paul.

Assuming the numbers of otters are still nothing compared to what they were years ago, did fish not exist in our rivers when they numbered more?
I think you take a snapshot in your mind and say this is great and then expect it to remain for time immemorial.
NATURE, which encompasses your fishing and the environment in which you fish does just not work like that!
Change is really the only constant!

 

[Terry Simner]

Assuming the numbers of otters are still nothing compared to what they were years ago, did fish not exist in our rivers when they numbered more?
I think you take a snapshot in your mind and say this is great and then expect it to remain for time immemorial.
NATURE, which encompasses your fishing and the environment in which you fish does just not work like that!
Change is really the only constant!

!!!! How can you presume, how can you make such a sweeping statement, that otter numbers now are less than they were?
And have you given any thought at all to the fact that otters are now a protected species, whereas in the past numbers were controlled?
It is irresponsible in the extreme to introduce an apex predator into an ecosystem and blithely say "Oh, a new balance will be restored in the fullness of time".

 

[Ady Brayshaw]

I am lucky because I live near the Trent. Only been serious barbel fishing for just over 2 years but I have fished the Trent for nearly 50 years. It seems that there is a common misconception that the Trent is full of barbel everywhere however long stretches contain very few fish. Some of this is due to poor habitat, some I am sure is down to over fishing and on the upper river otters may have a part to play.
I first encountered barbel in numbers in about 1984. They were being caught everywhere and yet in the years before hardly any were seen. These ranged from 4oz to about 4lb in weight so where were they hiding before?
My fishing is split between a prolific stretch where I nearly always catch barbel and a quiet stretch where I hope to catch a monster (not happened yet). I only fish in short sessions of 3-5 hours when I feel I have the best chance of fish. My pb of 13lb exactly was caught in September last year. Increasingly I am seeing barbel anglers that are travelling a long way to fish the Trent but some of them struggle to catch even on the prolific stretch because they are in the wrong spot or casting the wrong distance or using the wrong bait.
I fully intend to take advantage of the great fishing on my doorstep as I don't know how long it will last. In fact I think I'll go this evening in this lovely mild weather!
All the best to everyone on this great forum.
Ian.

I agree with a lot what you have written Ian. You see quite a few comments from anglers that think you just turn up on the Trent and haul them out. I see and speak to many anglers that blank on there. Many of the catches from the Trent are over exaggerated I'm sure. You generally have an idea of what is being caught (especially on the tidal where bank side cover can be limited) by simple observation. On the positive I've caught a few barbel under the pound mark this year which bodes well for the future.

 

[Damian Kimmins]

!!!! How can you presume, how can you make such a sweeping statement, that otter numbers now are less than they were?
And have you given any thought at all to the fact that otters are now a protected species, whereas in the past numbers were controlled?
It is irresponsible in the extreme to introduce an apex predator into an ecosystem and blithely say "Oh, a new balance will be restored in the fullness of time".

I wish I could predict the lottery numbers as I seem able to predict other things!
When you say controlled you mean almost to the point of extinction? Speak to any large estate river keeper and they will be able to provide you with the numbers they were killing.
There are 10,000,000 more people in the UK now than there were in 1970, with the number of anglers surely many more than back then, with more access to the waterside to those anglers also, yet it is still quite a rare thing to see an otter for most. In my years fishing the Avon I only saw one, and that was back in '97. Fishing the Kennet, I only ever saw one there also.
Whilst you might consider it sweeping, it was a statement that was considered.
Regardless, my point was not to say, contrary to what some might have you believe that a healthy river and otters do not coexist, but just to say that nature is always in a state of flux.
Kind regards
Damian

 

[Stephen Ward]

What an interesting thread this is, many good points put forward to this conversation about this decline so carnt help myself to put my input in regarding:
I fish the W.avon have done on and off for 15 years, more so just concentrating on it,the last 4. One thing I have noticed in the past two is a serious otter problem occurring and affecting not just the barbel but everything. I fish predominantly for carp but obviously I pick up barbel,bream,chub all the time,With the bait what’s going in. I have a couple of spots that get pre baited heavily,weekly as my sessions are only short. There’s always been rumours over the years of otters spotted, different stretches,where they live etc but in my opinion never really any noticeable affect on the fishing.... not until end 2018 when a pair made home.
2018 season was a good 1, all sizes of barbel from low singles right up to over 14,with many doubles, same said for the chub and bream fishing, known bream pegs doing over 100lb in match’s a lot of the time with All fish in mint condition.
2019 season with a pair of otters and 4 cubs. Barbel to start with,nothing small,caught. same kind of stamp of numbers between mid to high doubles, doubles not as many nor to the size as last year but and a big but, damage to a lot of fish ie the telltale nics out of the tails , some bad gashes/ claw marks, 50% of the carp caught the same not many marks but bad tail damage, this is the same for chub and more so the bream ,with equally the match men no where near having the same bags. normal pleasure Angler’s struggling and complaining, where as years before could say ,you’d have a decent mix bag. That was in a year.
I know of other stretch’s on W.A that people are regularly travelling up from south to fish because they rivers have been decimated by otters,some saying it’s the new mecca for barbel?!?! I don’t agree by the way.
I know the wye still fishes well on its day with multiple hits as mentioned before 30+ fish in a day nothing big but a good average between 4-9lb regularly,as long as the dam hasn’t been opened but that’s another topic.
I carnt comment on water quality, breeding,etc on the w.a as the stretches, you never see the fish spawning but 2018 I did catch small barbel ( pound or so ) that would imply they are breeding,have breed recent, numbers don’t know but where’s there’s one ,there’s another so some good news.
These latest floods again imo don’t help the fishing ,certainly the carp get washed down stream. Fact.
Barbel I don’t know ,but the runs and swims are all affected which I think will affect the barbel liking or not there old haunts. resulting to them travelling/washed away to pastures new.
Fishing pressure another factor.
People taking the fish.
Biggest problem is OTTERS we are all facing,and it’s getting worse. Defiantly .
All I can say is we can only hope,wait and see to what this year brings, bearing in mind all of the factors everyone’s mentioned previously,.
Good luck
steve

 

[Ian Grant]

I think Lawrence Breakspear hit the nail on the head ... ' Everything has changed ', but it's folly to believe that any one factor of this change is by far and away more responsible than any other in the damage being done to our rivers.
Yes Otters are a problem, ... a massive problem in some areas still, but over predation by other species, some natural to our rivers others not, is also a contributing factor i believe. It's not just Barbel that are suffering, I remember putting a lump of paste in the margins every time i started fishing to see how long it would take the Minnows to whittle it down .... i can't remember the last time i saw a minnow let alone a shoal of them, i remember lifting my landing net out of the water at the end of a session, and having to pick the fry out of the mesh ! doesn't happen now !
Predation ( including human ) is only one facet of the problem, The butchering of waterways in the name of flood defense, water abstraction, the many types of water pollution, invasions of alien species, flooding, how far reaching all these things are and what effects on the environment, and the ecology who can say, but collectively they are undoubtedly having a massive effect, and not just on the rivers the environment as a whole is suffering, ..... When was the last time your windscreen was spattered with flies on a short trip down the motorway ? The decline of Barbel populations in my opinion is down to lack fry coming through, which then perpetuates the problem a few years on with fewer fish reaching adulthood and so less around to spawn.... it's a snowballing effect !
All of the above are likely contributing to the problem, but if there is one single factor that gives rise to all the others........ It's US ! ... The human race, there are just too many of us, demanding too much from the eco system, with the all too obvious effects that we are seeing.... not all !... the average Joe Bloggs hasn't a clue about all this ! Many i think believe that reducing plastic production, and buying electric cars will solve all our problems, personally i think the answers to all this are way beyond our reach now.

 

[Stephen Ward]

Another great reply by Ian Grant, defiantly agree with the lack of fry and new generations of fish struggling to grow because of all the pollution, water quality, work they do on and around the rivers, un seen and seen damage is a major contributor, Graham
also touched on this with the amount hormones in the water, I’d probably go as far as to say there’s probably some degree of radiation also present in them as well, as many over traces of harmful chemicals,medication,pesticides. Luckily I can say that it hasn’t got as bad as you Ian regarding you not seeing any minnows or fry as far as I’m concerned both rivers/stretches I fish are alive with them. The predation factor ie pike,zander,Crays,cormorants. Luckily to my knowledge and whilst fishing the W.A I have never caught,rigs ,bait ,tackle never had any of the tell tale signs of them so like to say that these imo aren’t a problem yet and doesn’t really contribute to the decline same said for cormorants, Severn has its fair share tho.... Zander and pike being the natural apex predator. I target these in the winter months on the W.A and Severn again imo these have also taken a noticeable steady decline over the last 10 years, Avon no where near the amount of jacks up to the double figures that there used to be, zander this winter have been a struggle on both rivers but blaming the higher river levels than normal. Severns exactly the same for pike with the bigger girls aren’t in the numbers as years passed, again some fish caught show tell tale signs of otter damage. Pike and zander don’t take Imo the bigger fish, which we can all say are in a decline, and no where near the numbers of previous years.

Completely in agreement with all said about eco system, too many humans, too much strain, the whole snowball affect but for adult fish stocks now and present in all rivers up and down the country, I’m a firm believer that the number1 and main problem is otters. There not and cannot be controlled being protected, it doesn’t matter if the fish there Hunting is 1/2 pound or 20 pound , they will take it on and kill it as they have and done. We all know or know of a fish,fishery,river,lake,pond,canal which has been affected by these. There the number 1 predator, with no other animal in the uk natural world to keep it controlled,apart from the occasional road death which I haven’t seen one dead in a long time,there is no control on there population,other words there just going to multiply, new generations will be forced out ,that then travel further up or down stream making new families to repeat the process,this problem will, has on many rivers already and is spiralling out of control on the W.a & Severn. You could say that nature will level out but them being so greedy and wasteful nothing has a chance, whether it be fish or wildlife, until it’s all gone and they move to new stretch with fresh stocks to sustain them. I’m not catching fish that have plastic wrapped/tangled around them but I am catching different types of fish that again and again show signs of otter attacks, this is concerning for the now and present stocks that do exist, couple this with the juveniles that are struggling to establish themselves, the futures not looking good for our great sport and once great rivers. Keeping to the fishing theme,Whats changed?? Yep, unfortunately everything’s changed for the worse not better.☹