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Small river cold water baits

H

Howard Cooke

Senior Member
A question about boilies:generally speaking is there a more favoured flavour that folk use in cold and clear water when compared to warmer or coloured water? For example are fruit based flavours better than, say, spicy/fish based flavours? Or doesn't it really matter that much? Many thanks.
 
Hi Howard,

I'm not sure how relevant my opinion is these days, but here is my opinion:

The goal is to give them something they are keen on, where they are able to find it, when they are likely to eat it. I can't think how the boilie 'type' or 'flavour' would impact that, at least not in the context of the conditions on a given session or with the seasons. Especially as I assume you already use a bait that they like to eat.

When the conditions aren't great, I'd think more about location, bait size & texture, if I were to be tempted to fish for barbel and/or 'do bait' again.

Sorry it's a bit cryptic!
 
It's all to do with the breakdown of oily baits in cold water, hallibut pellet for example don't do so well in the winter months, or so we are told. However in such conditions fruit flavours are believed to work better as they disperse their scents easier.
It is a question that the carpers would be better equipped to answer I reckon, I tend to use smelly meats or cheese paste in the Winter.
 
Hi Howard,
I would agree with Darren, if you have a flavour that they find to their liking now, they will also in winter, personally my flavours are always of a spicey / savoury nature.
Regarding bait, Darrens comment on texture is probably the most important of all, most shop bought boillies are by their nature hard, with a Barbels metabolism already slowed by cold water temps, will mean an even slower process of digestion, so i would reccomend only paste as free baits, and be very conservative with it in how much you put in, that obviously means as Darren says location becomes a vital consideration, even more so than usual.
To that end i would make your freebie paste fairly soft, to ensure breakdown in the cold water leaving a flavour trail the Barbel can home in on, even soft paste in very cold temps will last many hours, but the flavour will remain on the bottom for some time leaving a trail the Barbel will follow if it has the desire to eat !
I always summer and winter mould paste around my hookbait, and you can make that a bit harder to make sure it will last several hours, and i always mount 2 baits on the hair which the paste will get jammed between the two, and last even longer.
You can boil your hookbaits as long as you need to make the firm enough to take the paste being squashed around them, after all they are never going to eat those ! but if you still wish to boil your freebies then i would boil only long enough to put a skin on them, but if the temps drop to the low 40's i really would advise using paste only, as free bait, so as to ensure that as soon as the barbel has eaten it, it's passage through their gut will start immediatly, considerably reducing that full feeling, that they will have after eating even a small amount of harder food, which would remain in the top of their gut for many hours.
So if you have a flavour that works now stick to it, and as Darren says concentrate on location, and texture of bait.

Regards
Ian.
 
Hi Howard,

Once it starts to get cold put the barbel rods away and fish for chub!!!Maybe Im just a quitter but the buggers are hard enough to catch in summer/autumn and the way things are going it looks like winter has come early if my lastest catch returns are anything to go by....oh by the way Ians right use cheese paste the chub love it.
 
Ian Grant said:
Hi Howard,
I would agree with Darren, if you have a flavour that they find to their liking now, they will also in winter, personally my flavours are always of a spicey / savoury nature.
Regarding bait, Darrens comment on texture is probably the most important of all, most shop bought boillies are by their nature hard, with a Barbels metabolism already slowed by cold water temps, will mean an even slower process of digestion, so i would reccomend only paste as free baits, and be very conservative with it in how much you put in, that obviously means as Darren says location becomes a vital consideration, even more so than usual.
To that end i would make your freebie paste fairly soft, to ensure breakdown in the cold water leaving a flavour trail the Barbel can home in on, even soft paste in very cold temps will last many hours, but the flavour will remain on the bottom for some time leaving a trail the Barbel will follow if it has the desire to eat !
I always summer and winter mould paste around my hookbait, and you can make that a bit harder to make sure it will last several hours, and i always mount 2 baits on the hair which the paste will get jammed between the two, and last even longer.
You can boil your hookbaits as long as you need to make the firm enough to take the paste being squashed around them, after all they are never going to eat those ! but if you still wish to boil your freebies then i would boil only long enough to put a skin on them, but if the temps drop to the low 40's i really would advise using paste only, as free bait, so as to ensure that as soon as the barbel has eaten it, it's passage through their gut will start immediatly, considerably reducing that full feeling, that they will have after eating even a small amount of harder food, which would remain in the top of their gut for many hours.
So if you have a flavour that works now stick to it, and as Darren says concentrate on location, and texture of bait.

Regards
Ian.
Click to expand...

Spot on as ever Ian. You really must get around to writing a book mate...I would have the copy marked No1 :)

Cheers, Dave.
 
Yes, EA based flavour disperses better than oil based.

Maybe it's better in flowing water to think about a quick / easily dispersing liquid attractor, combined with a slower, longer acting powdered attractor. Such as cheese powder, GLM, robin red etc. etc.
 
Darren George said:
Yes, EA based flavour disperses better than oil based.

Maybe it's better in flowing water to think about a quick / easily dispersing liquid attractor, combined with a slower, longer acting powdered attractor. Such as cheese powder, GLM, robin red etc. etc.
Click to expand...

And if the oil based flavour has an emulsifier added? :)

Cheers, Dave.
 
To be perfectly honest, I don't know and I'm not likely to ever wish to find out. I mucked around with emulsifiers a bit in the garage but never got as far as the bankside.

Sorry!

I gave up my bait habit and am determined not to relapse. I think that it's all too easy to get sucked into the theoretical details and lose sight of what really matters - catching fish and enjoying yerself. It got to a stage where bait was taking over - spending more time and money in the garage than on the bank.


Bait should solve a problem, not create them!
 
Fascinating stuff, Darren you sound like you had it bad. Of course as Anglers we are always mulling over if we are on the right bait for the conditions, and quite right too, I hate taking a load of gear with me to the bank, but I always carry a number of different boilies and pellets in tubs, and often use as much as 5/6 different hook baits in a session. Well that's OK for the summer, but winter it's a different scenario, and the fish will be less active, and maybe feed just once a day and in short spells.
I subscribe to the reasoning that less energy expended vs maxmum benefit will entice fish in the winter, so I prefer big smelly meats, paste ,lobworms, and cheese paste will always catch fish.
The comment that hard baites will make te fish feel 'full' is a great point and will fashion my thinking this winter.
Keep it coming lads.:)
 
> you sound like you had it bad.... I subscribe to the reasoning that less energy expended vs maxmum benefit

One thing that niggles me and that I would love to explore is this. When conditions are good, barbel seem to be caught on a variety of baits - they seem to me to be behaving in an opportunistic manner. I'm thinking food is plentiful and varied and the fish feel safe enough to make the most of the bounty.

But are there times when barbel become... more focussed on one particular food source or feeding scenario. Seekers rather than opportunists. So much so that unless you are using the right bait, fished in the right way, at the right time, in the right place, you are doomed to poor results?

Course, we know that we can create the 'seeker' scenario via prebaiting. In which case it follows that it is a behaviour trait of barbel, to become, to some degree and at certain times, single-minded. But does it occur naturally, without the influence of anglers prebaiting...
 
if its warm enogu forthe to feed pellets work altohugh if its low and clear and aroun 6-8c ive done well on maggots.
 
Andrew Elliot said:
if its warm enogu forthe to feed pellets work altohugh if its low and clear and aroun 6-8c ive done well on maggots.
Click to expand...

This is interesting Andrew as I have been thinking about using maggots more in the winter (unless the water is up and coloured). Do you use a simple feeder set up with mono or braid hooklengths? Also, do you find a smaller hook works better (say a 14) ?

Cheers
 
a dropper or feeder long hooklength size 14 hook 0.17 hooklength preston powerline material,flavour my maggots with shrimp garlic and chilli powder.
 
Trouble is that every fish that swims love maggots , the ultimate none selective bait .I reckon barbel will eat virtually anything , whether in big or small rivers . In winter the thing to avoid is not giving them too much in the way of freebies . Fish metabolism is slower , they eat less and get full up quicker
 
Ian Grant said:
Hi Howard,
I would agree with Darren, if you have a flavour that they find to their liking now, they will also in winter, personally my flavours are always of a spicey / savoury nature.
Regarding bait, Darrens comment on texture is probably the most important of all, most shop bought boillies are by their nature hard, with a Barbels metabolism already slowed by cold water temps, will mean an even slower process of digestion, so i would reccomend only paste as free baits, and be very conservative with it in how much you put in, that obviously means as Darren says location becomes a vital consideration, even more so than usual.
To that end i would make your freebie paste fairly soft, to ensure breakdown in the cold water leaving a flavour trail the Barbel can home in on, even soft paste in very cold temps will last many hours, but the flavour will remain on the bottom for some time leaving a trail the Barbel will follow if it has the desire to eat !
I always summer and winter mould paste around my hookbait, and you can make that a bit harder to make sure it will last several hours, and i always mount 2 baits on the hair which the paste will get jammed between the two, and last even longer.
You can boil your hookbaits as long as you need to make the firm enough to take the paste being squashed around them, after all they are never going to eat those ! but if you still wish to boil your freebies then i would boil only long enough to put a skin on them, but if the temps drop to the low 40's i really would advise using paste only, as free bait, so as to ensure that as soon as the barbel has eaten it, it's passage through their gut will start immediatly, considerably reducing that full feeling, that they will have after eating even a small amount of harder food, which would remain in the top of their gut for many hours.
So if you have a flavour that works now stick to it, and as Darren says concentrate on location, and texture of bait.

Regards
Ian.
Click to expand...

Ian-I have been tardy in expressing gratitude for this. Most informative and very insightful. Many thanks.
 
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