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Safe Leadcore rigs other than chod/heli

S

Sam Lloyd

Senior Member
Can anyone point me in the direction of some safe leadcore rigs other than chod/helicopter ? Ones that don't leave the fish trailing any amount of leadcore....
 
In my opinion Sam, unless you are using a chod/helicopter set up leadcore is not the best idea, as the only way a fish can free itself from the leadcore (in the avent of mainline parting) is to break the hooklink! Why not use tubing or olivettes on your main line?

Tom. :)
 
Steven Ballard said:
IMO there are no safe leadcore rigs that I know of.
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If set up and used PROPERLY then leadcore rigs are perfectly safe IMO, but like I say it has to be used properly, and like Tom says it's got to be a heli setup really Sam.

Where I know Tom and I differ in our opinions though is that I think it's unsafe to ditch the lead with a leadcore setup, as the fish needs the weight of the lead to pull the hook link up and over the top of the leader. Everybody has their own opinions on this last point and ditching the lead on the take is all the rage at the mo but I think if you're fishing a really weedy water then either use a really light lead or do away with the leadcore altogether as the line lay will be better without anyway ;)
 
I'm no carper, Sam, but on my last couple of sessions, I've been (successfully) using slack lines. There are some very good carpers out there who reckon a slack line along the contours of the bottom is better than leadcore, and (contrary to what you'd expect) the bite indication can be better. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Jez uses slack lines — and he knows a thing or two about how to catch the buggers. Just something to think about.
 
Nick Franklin said:
If set up and used PROPERLY then leadcore rigs are perfectly safe IMO, but like I say it has to be used properly, and like Tom says it's got to be a heli setup really Sam.

Where I know Tom and I differ in our opinions though is that I think it's unsafe to ditch the lead with a leadcore setup, as the fish needs the weight of the lead to pull the hook link up and over the top of the leader. Everybody has their own opinions on this last point and ditching the lead on the take is all the rage at the mo but I think if you're fishing a really weedy water then either use a really light lead or do away with the leadcore altogether as the line lay will be better without anyway ;)
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Im sure if used properly then certain rigs can be safe, but like I said rigs that I know of arent, maybe because I have never been one for using lots of different rigs, preferring to keep things very simple, so probably arent as clued up on rigs etc like a lot of you on here.
 
Steven Ballard said:
Im sure if used properly then certain rigs can be safe, but like I said rigs that I know of arent, maybe because I have never been one for using lots of different rigs, preferring to keep things very simple, so probably arent as clued up on rigs etc like a lot of you on here.
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Absolutely mate, the only problem with leadcore is the person using it, and unfortunately lots of people use products without thinking about how best to use them properly beforehand!
As for rigs, just like you I've got two or three nice simple rigs that do me for everything and I try not to change them unless I come across a specific problem that only a different presentation would overcome, things would be far too complicated for me otherwise what with some of the rigs I see in the mags! :)
 
Andy Millichamp said:
I'm no carper, Sam, but on my last couple of sessions, I've been (successfully) using slack lines. There are some very good carpers out there who reckon a slack line along the contours of the bottom is better than leadcore, and (contrary to what you'd expect) the bite indication can be better. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Jez uses slack lines — and he knows a thing or two about how to catch the buggers. Just something to think about.
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Excellent advice. I always fish as slack as poss, even with LC.
 
Hi Andy,
I always use slack lines, even when i can't back lead, but the presentation you can achieve on a stillwater, probably wouldn't apply to running water unless you were fishing in slack or at least very slow flow, as the flow will lift the line and waft it about, i settle for that if i can't backlead, as i'm pretty sure the fish aren't bothered by a slack line brushing their flanks, but if the fish continues drifting against it, it's still possible for it to tighten the line against the lead or the rod top, and spook it, i'd rather that than use Leadcore for any situation though.
Though i don't like Barbless hooks, i reckon it's the best option to build a reliable saftey factor into a rig incorporating leadcore, whether it be Helicopter, Chod, or standard, because IMO leadcore is only effective if using several feet of the stuff, and a fish taking that into a snag could or probably would tether itself whether it shed the lead or not, a barbless hook, would pretty much ensure it would be able to free itself, but not without potential damage to it's lip IMO as the fish will react pretty violently when it realised it's tethered, given rise to the damage i'm sure barbless hooks can do, but at least it would get away with it's life :(

Ian.
 
Ian Grant said:
Though i don't like Barbless hooks, i reckon it's the best option to build a reliable saftey factor into a rig incorporating leadcore, whether it be Helicopter, Chod, or standard, because IMO leadcore is only effective if using several feet of the stuff, and a fish taking that into a snag could or probably would tether itself whether it shed the lead or not
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If set up correctly, in the event of a main line breakage above the LC leader the hooklink should almost immediately ride up the leader and come off the top, leaving the fish with just the hooklink. This is why I NEVER dump the lead when using LC and always make sure the top bead (the one that keeps the hooklink in place) is as loose fitting as possible, so loose that if the fish shakes its head the weight of the lead dislodges the bead and the fish is just left with the hooklink. I've tested it pretty thoroughly and am happy I'm fishing as safely as poss even with barbed hooks, but as you say Ian if a fish were to be left trailing a length of LC then I wouldn't be too confident of a happy outcome :(
The thing is this is true for any leader, not just LC so the best thing we can do is think about the products we're using and how best to use them, and in what situation they would or wouldn't work.... LC is great in certain situations but it's certainly not the be and end all. Fluoro leaders or mainline straight through, few blobs of putty up the nice slack line and you're away ;)
 
Like this you mean Nick ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiAyJ7UD3OU&feature=player_embedded#

Thats fine if the fish breaks you prior to entering a snag, but most of the time fish lost in snags don't break you, the angler has to pull for a break, by which time potentially - not every time i'll Grant you ( no pun intended :D ) the fish may have well and truly woven itself into whatever it sought sanctuary in with evey possiblity the lead has not snagged.
In that situation, and even possible with plain old mono, and a running lead, the lead and clip would not be able to run down the lead core past the first blockage caused by the lead core having wrapped around a branch, a root, or a tangle of underwater branches - even bramble type stuff, the fish in it's panic turning this way and that making the situation even worse.
If this is the rig you speak of Nick it relies totaly on the weight pulling out of the clip, and on the leadcore being straight enough, and unobstructed, to allow the material to pull through unobstructed finally releasing the hooklength. If the lead is blocked by the leadcore having wrapped itself around an obstruction, and even likley not having been pulled out of the clip prior to the mainline breaking, there is IMO every chance of the fish being tethered regardless of the mechanics of this rig, yes a better method of construction than tying the hooklength to a spliced loop, but still fraught with dangers in IMO.
Obviously considerate use of leadcore and the situations it's used in, will reduce the dangers, but you would have to be fishing in areas devoid of bankside snags, and know the botton of your river like the back of your hand, one good flood and that can all change though.
Nothing would convince me it's safe enough that i would ever want to use it, as much as i do like to keep my lines pinned down.

Ian.
 
It comes up quite a lot this question, for my two penneth, I don't honestly see any difference between a fish wrapping leadcore, 20lb Braid or even mono mainline up in a snag, if it gets wrapped up in a snag it gets wrapped up in a snag, regardless of whether you are using leadcore, braid, fluro or silver tinsel!!!

It will only escape if it can break something or throw the hook and therefore the most important thing is to ensure the weakest link in your rig is your hooklink, if the fish has any chance of escape it will either throw the hook, which in most cases I believe it will or it will break the hooklink, most probably at the swivel knot.........

I do not follow the leadcore is bad club, any line is bad if left hanging from the hooklink, let us not kid ourselves on that............

Good advice is, do not fish too close to snags that a fish can get into them in the first place!!
 
That clip is great Ian, thanks for that, will be using that rig you know where next time :)
 
No, the rig shown there is far too complicated for my liking! I only ever use LC in a heli setup, and I never set the rig up to ditch the lead. The lead is tied on to the bottom of the leader, the hooklink sits above this on a big ring swivel, and above this holding the hooklink in place is a small section of silicone tubing with a rubber bead pushed over the top of it - the bore on the bead is opened out so that it only just grips the silicone tubing. In the event of a fish picking up the rig, the hooklink rides up the leader to meet the top bead and pushes the bead off the tubing, and then if my mainline was to break the weight of the lead would pull the leader through the big eye of the swivel really easily leaving the fish with just the hooklink.

I completely understand and agree with what you're saying as regards fish entering snags and as you say, if a fish makes it into a snag with plain 12 or 10lb mono it can become fully tethered, and as I'm sure you know trying to break even 10lb mono on a straight pull is pretty hard work so what do we do when we're snag fishing? Drop line strength and hope for the best? No, we beef up the tackle and stop the fish getting in the snags in the first place (for the record I don't use LC if I have to snag fish).

IMO as with every product as long as it's used sensibly in the right situation LC can be a valuable asset. Personally I don't use it on the rivers as I haven't come across a situation where I think it would give me an advantage, but if such a situation arose then I would use it.

This is what I love about fishing, so many different opinions and approaches, keeps the old grey matter ticking over :):)

Nick
 
Ian Crook said:
It comes up quite a lot this question, for my two penneth, I don't honestly see any difference between a fish wrapping leadcore, 20lb Braid or even mono mainline up in a snag, if it gets wrapped up in a snag it gets wrapped up in a snag, regardless of whether you are using leadcore, braid, fluro or silver tinsel!!!
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Got in there just before me, and said what I wanted to in much fewer words :D
 
I much prefer tungsten tubing, far heavier than leadcore, much better for river work and more suited to barbel fishing rigs.
The leadcore I use as loop on leaders for salmon fly fishing, certainly gets a fly down in a good flow.
peter
 
Peter Littleworth said:
I much prefer tungsten tubing, far heavier than leadcore, much better for river work and more suited to barbel fishing rigs.
The leadcore I use as loop on leaders for salmon fly fishing, certainly gets a fly down in a good flow.
peter
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I used to use it Peter, but it was such a pain to thread line through !

If woven into a snag though as i described the line will pull through easily.

Ian.
 
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