• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Rod Refurb

Martyn Lloyd

Martyn Lloyd

Senior Member
I bumped into my very first carp rod last night, a lovely actioned Tri Cast model from about `86 (cost £90 odd if I remember, a weeks money at the time!).

Anyway, its in need of some tlc and, as I`ve been toying with the idea of a rod specifically for trundling meat next summer, I think its time to strip the rod down and rebuild it.

Now, the rings can wait for another day so I`d like to begin picking the brains of the many rod builders on here as to the handle.

At the mo its a duplon handle with a Fuji seat which definitely needs replacing. I`d like to fit a cork handle so the initial questions to ask you guys are:

1/ How do you remove reel seats without damaging the blank?

2/ What sort of cork would you advise and could anyone recommend a supplier?

Thanks in advance for any help you can throw in the mixer:D
 
Martin,

Will watch this one with anticipation....I fancy knocking up a stalker using the top section of a 12 footer with a handle attached but have no idea how to remove the handle from the bottom section and was going to ask the forum for ideas....

Paul
 
Nice rods the old Tricasts - have a ML 3-8, pair of CM 6-12 and a MUR - think the test curves are 1.25, 1.75 and 2.25. Covered most eventualities from tench to pike for me.

Anyway removing an old reel seat -
I cut in a spiral pattern with a Junior hacksaw (new blade) a turn or two over the reel seat. Some parts of the reel seat (assuming it's a Fuji graphite type) will be harder and thicker than others - so work with care.
Depending on the blank diameter and reel seat internal bore there is usually some space between the reel fitting and blank - you only want to cut the seat - touch the blank and it's usually nighty night. Cutting in a spiral will allow you to peel off the old seat a bit easier.

Cork - a minefield - it's expensive and quality varies dramatically. There is no universally recognised grading system and therefore one mans super dooper can be rubbish in the eyes of another.
I have bags of cork than will remain unused because I am unhappy with it. Depends on whether you take the easy option and buy small lengths of preformed cylinders and fix these together (these are already turned to a diameter and also filled ranging from 2" to 20" in length) so they may be a convenient route.
The other is to build the cork handle on the rod and turn to your prefered diameter and shape - but it's easier if you have some form of turning motor/lathe for this. It is possible to work and shape using abrasives but the end result will depend on care and skill.

The traditional shive method (shives are usually 1/2" thick round sections of cork ranging from 0.20p to 1.50 each - do the sums!) but need boring, clamping and then turning and shaping - a time consuming operation.
Would suggest that you look at Hopkins and Holloway or Guides and Blanks as a starter for the cork as you will probably be buying small quantities.

Generally, grades of cork are often quoted as 'B', A, through to Fluor - the latter being the highest quality - but again quality can vary.
There is an alternative system CG1 to CG3 for furher explanation follow this link (if you are still awake!)

http://www.solwaycustomcomponents.com/Grip_Material.html


If you really get stuck then I can probably help - as I buy quite a bit of cork!

Hope this helps,
Bob
 
Martyn,

I'm looking for similar advice, a good freind of mine who's alot older than me dug out an old rod from the shed the other week and he thought about scrapping it. He's a very experienced angler and knows good tackle and he doesn't hold back on buying the modern stuff....he's got a few quids worth!

At first glance of the rod I thought yes scrap it, 4 leg eyes, no quality looks about it. But after chatting to him about the fish he as caught on it and in his own admitance about it's quality compared to his modern rods I thought why scrap it?

Been picking it up lately, bending it across the ceiling and trying to snap it...it wont. It's crisp and light it as a good progressive curve and feels like it will do the job it was built for, it obviously did and I think the old blank will still do it.....just needs a bit of tlc and modernisation

The rod is a Mal Storey Severn/Trent carbon feeder, beefy old twin tip thing that I have now offered to rebuild, I think it's worth it for a freind who has fond memories with it.

Me I'm the same...new screw handle, but I'll go the whole hogg and re-ring it but I'm unsure of eyes to fit along with a screw fit handle....gonna try doing a top job as I feel it's worth it but I just need advice on eyes and a handle to buy and where from.
I have no trouble in doing the work it's just that I normally use 2nd hand stuff to repair and re-build rods for myself

Cheers
Jason

This is for a freind and I think the old rod deserves a bit more than the old second hand stuff I normally use

Cheers
Jason
 
Last edited:
Bob, I stayed awake for all of that mate, all three times I`ve read it so far! Thanks for the advice, I`ll certainly have a click around today!

Preformed handles do sound a viable option. It sounds as though I could do with seeing it before buying though......

Dave, cheers for the links. Again, I think Thursday will turn into a bit of a `clickathon`!

Jason, I always wanted to get a Mal Storey Severn/Trent rod but never seemed to get round to it! Superb blanks by all accounts!

Andy, I`m in the delightful Black Country mate though I might consider getting a `pro to rebuild the rod (tried quite a few in the past but the finish never comes out very good!)
 
Paul, one for you mate.

As Bob kindly pointed out, theres space between the reel seat and blank which does make removal a little less likely to trash the blank.

I removed the Duplon handles last night then carefully sawed (in a spiral, again, thanks to Bob!) and this is what lay beneath.

reel-fitting.jpg



Next.......what grade paper to remove old varnish and smooth the rod down with?
 
Depends..........
Is the blank unground? - An unground blank is one that feels rough to the touch and has little spiral ridges all the way up. If so it may not have been coated/varnished during manufacture.
A ground blank is smooth and is usually varnished or coated with some clear or tinted finish. Some rods that I have had had their tinted finish removed by a quick wipe of cellulose thinners - an old green Century Trefor West Pulse Upstreamer being one example, that after a wipe revealed carbon colour under the 'varnish'.
The finish can be urethane, epoxy or acrylic or spirit/solvent based. One way to test for the latter two is to use a cotton bud soaked in cellulose thinners (on a hidden part of the rod of course - one that will be covered by say the new handle when fitted).
Some varnishes/finishes can be difficult to remove. Depending on the state of the rod - does it need revarnishing?
Now any abrading will lead to removal of material and we don't really want to remove any or maybe just a little bit of carbon as this will result in potential weakness.
For what it's worth, I use a small cabinet scraper (actually a musical instrument one), if solvent has failed to get rid of varnish. Work very carefully as any dig ins of the scraper will trash the blank - you'll know this when wisps of carbon are raised or removed.
Abrasive papers - use fine 400 grit or finer. Wire wool of various grades can be also useful.
Try to pick off any bits of duplon and remaining detritus rather than using more agressive techniques.
Other rod makers may use different methods.

Next....

Hope this helps,
Bob
 
Mart,

Thanks for that but my little project is different to yours in that I won't be re-using the blank that the handle is currently on afterwards....

....I want to make up a short stalker from the pieces of 2 separate rods in the roof of my garage. The butt section is one that floated up in the floods a couple of years ago and the tip will be from an ancient old rod I bought from the market too many years ago to remember !!!!

I'm gonna cut the butt blank just above the duplon and then cut the tip section so that it will fit snuggly inside the handle and glue it all together using Araldite or similar....should end up about 6'6" in total once I'm done:):)

Just right for poking around the Teme with my old 'pin hopefully:D


Paul
 
Bumpety bump!

Right, blanks stripped and rod rings are on order (some single leg Seymos).

In need of a decent reel seat now. I take it that the internal diameter of the reel seat has some correlation to the diameter of cork used for the handle? I guess that might explain why tape is used to build up the diameter of the blank? Should I drop the Vernier on the barbel rod to get the size and go with that for the refurb? Still a bit up the air about cork though, especially with the slight taper on the blank.......

Also, whipping, dope, varnish etc. Can anyone advise on some good stuff?:D:D:D
 
Thats a handy link, ta:D:D
 
Thread - Gudebrod A Nylon - colours will darken a lot when the finish is applied. A refers to the thickness of the thread. If you don't want the colour to darken then use a 'NCP' thread or Colour preserver (yuk!). Other thicknesses available are B, C and D. A is the thinnest.
Finish to whippings - Flexcoat or Threadmaster two pack epoxy.
Reel seat - Fuji are good and reasonably priced.
Cork - normally between 22mm and 24.5 finished diameter.
Real Seat Diameter - Most models have the internal pipe diameter in the part number - DPS B 18 - Fuji Standard Pipe Seat, Black Hoods 18mm internal diameter. The DPS 18 has external measurement of approx 24.5 at the forgrip and 20.5 mm at the rear.
Usually there are three hood colours available as standard- ('satin silver' aka (bright) - cheapest, B Black and GS (gunsmoke - hideously expensive for what you get)).
Only one in the Fuji range that doesn't follow this is the VSS - where the VSS 16 is actually 13mm ID, the Fuji VSS 17 is on the other hand 17 mm ID.

Have a look at the some of the seats on my website.

http://www.anglinginnovations.co.uk/AI_Web_Site/reelseats.html

Cheers
Bob
 
Cheers Bob, most comprehensive!

Think I`m tying myself in knots on the reel handle diameter. Am I looking for a snug fit on the blank or to build it up with tape? I`ll have to measure the diameter when I get back.

The whipping nylon, any reason you prefer the thinnest one? The final finish on the whippings is something thats always let me down so thanks for the advice with the two pack epoxy.
 
Martyn,
Reel seats - depends on the diameter of the blank and also the reel(s) you are using.
Yes, make the necessary build with tape - but do at least 3 rings of tape with spaces in between for the epoxy to adhere to the blank and seat. Alternatively you can buy arbors/bushings (either polyurethane or plastic material aka brickfoam) - these can be bored to suit. I'd use the tape option for this rod, but make sure it's a nice fit. As an alternative to masking tape some makes of fibreglass 'drywall' tape may offer a stronger option. Quite a few other options but leave it at that for now.

Most people opt for a 18 sized reel seat but if appropriate I prefer the slightly slimmer 17 or 16. Most medium sized coarse reels will fit all these sizes.

Nylon - Grade A - got used to it before high build epoxy finishes came along and stuck with it for coarse rods. I'd probably use thicker for a sea rod. With high build epoxies then using a thicker thread is not so much of an issue as it is easier to get a smooth finish. I still like the handling and finish that I get with A.

Some manufacturers rate their thread differently to A, B, C, D and quote guage 30 or 15, which are roughly equivalent to A and D respectively.

Finally, get the reel seat in a position that suits you as mass produced rods have the distance fixed - which may not suit everbody!

And even more finally - consider having at least the butt ring as a double footer rather than a single leg.

Hope this helps,
Bob
 
PS - use a decent epoxy to do the fix (24hr preferably or if pushed 30 minute NOT 5 minute) and if you are using masking tape to do the bushings then wind tight and use a high adhesion grade - not a low tack variety.
Work clean.
Cheers
Bob
 
Bob, I appreciate all the advice mate, thanks!

Measured the blank last night. Where I want to reel fitting (matched it to the Fox barbel rod which I find super comfy) the blank is 14mm widening to 17mm at the butt of the blank.

The biggest reel I`ll use on the rod will be the 5000gte so I`m tempted to go with a smaller reel seat. Must have a mooch today!

So, what diameter cork do I need to match the reel seats or should I mount the seat first then measure the diameter, get slightly oversize then sand down? Hows about internal bore of the cork?

Sorry for all the questions Bob:D
 
Martyn,
Reel fitting - if you want a conventional reel seat like the DPS then I'd go for the DPS17.
It's neater than the 18 for this type of rod.
Cork - you could buy a preformed/glued together length of cork which also has a tapered bore - possibly your best option with an external diameter of 25mm, example in the following link:
http://www.guidesnblanks.com/product.php?product_id=388
Fit the cork before the reel seat.
Watch out for the quality - it would pay to ring them and ask what sort of quality the above is.
I make my own handles and either use shives or preform a handle and then taper the bore to fit the individual blank. I then turn the whole lot (turning the rod in a lathe to get the external diameter that the customer wants.
You'll have to sand the bit behind the reel seat rear to get a nice taper rather than a step.

On general rod making you'll find lots of tips here:

http://www.guidesnblanks.com/tips.php

The above is well worth looking at.

Hope this helps,
Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top