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playing fish without clutch

Graham Elliott said:
Alan.
All you've said is you like to make it more difficult and in doing so conclude its more skilful.

It's rubbish. Anglers simply do what they prefer or what suits them.

Load of tosh. If as you say anglers using the clutch put more fish on the bank, I would suggest you are not fishing with the fishes welfare as a consideration to your rambling.
Click to expand...


Hear, Hear!
 
Russell Emms said:
But if a fish goes again theirs no way you can keep up with it because the reel is wedged against your digit??
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The spool isn't "wedged against your digit", just enough finger pressure is exerted on the spool to just stop the running fish, then that said pressure is eased off.
When it comes down to the physics/mechanics of it, its all/mostly about :
a/.. how much force (from the fish 'running') it takes for the reel to initially give line.
b/..how 'linear' the rate of this 'giving of line' is, and
c/.. what happens when the force of the running fish is overcome i.e. when the running fish is stopped.
So when using and old clutch to play a fish...
With a/.. Unfortunately it took a hell of a lot of force to initially overcome the friction exerted from old clutch mechanisms, inertia had to be overcome. But once they started giving line they were ok(-ish). But it was getting the old clutches to give line in the first place that was the major problem
With b/.. unfortunately many of old clutches weren't smooth, so they gave/stopped/gave/stopped, so playing a fish was often 'jumpy/bumpy'.
And with c/..once the fish stopped, the old clutches immediately returned to their state of inertia.
Basically you weren't sure if you were going to get snapped on the strike (or before you even got chance to).
So you relied on having the anti-reverse off.
BUT THEN...:):):)
a/..you still had to overcome inertia, but now its a matter of the inertia from the handle/spool/winding mechanism...and a large part of that equation is about the gearing of the wind.
but
b/..if you held the handle you COULD get a linear rate of 'give and take' and
c/..when the fish stopped running you were always in direct contact and in a position to 'pull' without giving an inch of line.
(I'm getting bored now so I'm sure you are!)
But overall it just depends on how reliable your clutch is/was, and the gear ratio of the reel. With low gear ratios (e.g. Mit 300's) then the 'gear inertia' (the amount of force necessary to turn the handle) was low. So snap offs were less likely, but the likelihood of bruised fingers from a rapidly spinning handle was greatly increased. Plus if you weren't quick enough in stopping the spinning handle you could get an 'over-run' (like on a multiplier).
SOOOO, whatever...with poor clutches we HAD to play off the handle, and low-geared (slow line retrieve) reels were better for this task. But now, with better clutches, we have a choice...unless its a very high geared, fast retrieve reel, then we HAVE to use the clutch.
BUT... its down to trust in your clutch, but mostly IMHO, personal preference.
And my final word is, playing off the handle FEELS nicer. And I fish for such subtle pleasures.
AMEN:)
 
Russell Emms said:
But if a fish goes again theirs no way you can keep up with it because the reel is wedged against your digit??
Click to expand...

Absolutely not Russell, I and I would imagine others that have been backwinders for many years are perfectly able to give line and still keep control over the fish.

Its no coincidence that a lot of older anglers are backwinders, its just something we learned to do years ago when to rely on a reels clutch was angling suicide, GE mentioned Mitchell reels earlier in the thread, they were awful but some anglers still use them, if you get the chance to handle a rod with one on just test the clutch and you may see why some of us more mature :eek: anglers choose to backwind.

All down to previous experience and personal choice I reckon.
 
Terry Simner said:
The spool isn't "wedged against your digit", just enough finger pressure is exerted on the spool to just stop the running fish, then that said pressure is eased off.
When it comes down to the physics/mechanics of it, its all/mostly about :
a/.. how much force (from the fish 'running') it takes for the reel to initially give line.
b/..how 'linear' the rate of this 'giving of line' is, and
c/.. what happens when the force of the running fish is overcome i.e. when the running fish is stopped.
So when using and old clutch to play a fish...
With a/.. Unfortunately it took a hell of a lot of force to initially overcome the friction exerted from old clutch mechanisms, inertia had to be overcome. But once they started giving line they were ok(-ish). But it was getting the old clutches to give line in the first place that was the major problem
With b/.. unfortunately many of old clutches weren't smooth, so they gave/stopped/gave/stopped, so playing a fish was often 'jumpy/bumpy'.
And with c/..once the fish stopped, the old clutches immediately returned to their state of inertia.
Basically you weren't sure if you were going to get snapped on the strike (or before you even got chance to).
So you relied on having the anti-reverse off.
BUT THEN...:):):)
a/..you still had to overcome inertia, but now its a matter of the inertia from the handle/spool/winding mechanism...and a large part of that equation is about the gearing of the wind.
but
b/..if you held the handle you COULD get a linear rate of 'give and take' and
c/..when the fish stopped running you were always in direct contact and in a position to 'pull' without giving an inch of line.
(I'm getting bored now so I'm sure you are!)
But overall it just depends on how reliable your clutch is/was, and the gear ratio of the reel. With low gear ratios (e.g. Mit 300's) then the 'gear inertia' (the amount of force necessary to turn the handle) was low. So snap offs were less likely, but the likelihood of bruised fingers from a rapidly spinning handle was greatly increased. Plus if you weren't quick enough in stopping the spinning handle you could get an 'over-run' (like on a multiplier).
SOOOO, whatever...with poor clutches we HAD to play off the handle, and low-geared (slow line retrieve) reels were better for this task. But now, with better clutches, we have a choice...unless its a very high geared, fast retrieve reel, then we HAVE to use the clutch.
BUT... its down to trust in your clutch, but mostly IMHO, personal preference.
And my final word is, playing off the handle FEELS nicer. And I fish for such subtle pleasures.
AMEN:)
Click to expand...

Wonderful Terry, post of the season :)
 
the downside with clutches of course is line twist which is why during my 20 odd years of carp fishing I always back wound. I guess that's also the reason that many did this too and not just because the clutches, 55 excepted, were crap?
 
Well what can i say an angler for 45 years and i always backwind and don't lose fish because if it. Well i do tell a little lie i did use the clutch on 150lb cats on the ebro lol.
 
at the risk of resurrecting a (very) old thread ive just watched an angler on tv playing a double figure carp in front of him and all he is doing is holding his rod , reel locked and the clutch is just going whizz whizz every time the fish pulls too hard
he hasn't even got his hand on the handle!!!
if you anti back winders cant see how that destroys the joy of playing a fish then I give up

my lad in his late 20's has just taken up angling and to teach him to play fish and to physically respond to their runs I wound the clutch right up and didn't tell him about it.
I said if it pulls too hard back wind but as little as you can to keep in touch and keep on top in the fight
he loved it and next session was playing double figure carp on 8lb hooklengths and 14 hooks and not pulling out or snapping.

it does make playing fish a lot more demanding skill wise but so much more rewarding

I understand novice anglers or the old and not so quick to react or those who cant play fish can fall back on the clutch and use it to make fishing easier but surely being directly in touch is much better?


no clutch means testing your rod to its limit
and your playing skills

a clutch set properly you could use a broomstick instead of a rod

watching my novice son really hit the point home.
 
Well I’ve just read this cover to cover and I have to say some comments did bring a little smile to my face.

Bottom line...... a charging big barbel, you’ve gotta give it line when needed and you’ve gotta pull it away from snags when needed.
Honestly Who cares how you do this??
Nothing wrong with either method.

What’s this whole debate about skill?
Surely when we are strapped up to a loaded missile the priority is landing it safely not testing our skill by using methods we perhaps ain’t 100% used to. That’s only going to result in fish been left with 3 feet of braid hanging out their traps.
How can we say one method is more skillfull than another.
Who’s to judge how easily an individual can adapt to using a clutch or backwinding. It’s a bit of a petty statement.
Landing a double in difficult conditions is plenty skilful enough to wear the captain skill cap.
I can comfortably do it either way if I wish to but as mentioned before my priority is safely landing that fish so I’ll use the method that I feel best to do so at the time.
 
Richard Isaacs said:
Well I’ve just read this cover to cover and I have to say some comments did bring a little smile to my face.

Bottom line...... a charging big barbel, you’ve gotta give it line when needed and you’ve gotta pull it away from snags when needed.
Honestly Who cares how you do this??
Nothing wrong with either method.

What’s this whole debate about skill?
Surely when we are strapped up to a loaded missile the priority is landing it safely not testing our skill by using methods we perhaps ain’t 100% used to. That’s only going to result in fish been left with 3 feet of braid hanging out their traps.
How can we say one method is more skillfull than another.
Who’s to judge how easily an individual can adapt to using a clutch or backwinding. It’s a bit of a petty statement.
Landing a double in difficult conditions is plenty skilful enough to wear the captain skill cap.
I can comfortably do it either way if I wish to but as mentioned before my priority is safely landing that fish so I’ll use the method that I feel best to do so at the time.
Click to expand...
You mention pulling away from snags, well yes that is a situation where I would lock down the clutch to almost full, anything else it's back winding, I can feel every lunge and 'ping' , you cant with a clutch. Netting, clutch on set loose.
Simple.
 
I always use my clutch set 'just so'......Modern reels are so much better than the old Mitchell's .. but then I drive automatic cars because 'it is easier and generally more relaxing ' so you can see what school of thought I belong to😱
 
Neil Smart said:
You mention pulling away from snags, well yes that is a situation where I would lock down the clutch to almost full, anything else it's back winding, I can feel every lunge and 'ping' , you cant with a clutch. Netting, clutch on set loose.
Simple.
Click to expand...

If you enjoy your fishing and your not losing fish then that’s my point. Your method and it clearly works.

You can feel a hell of a lot through your rod using a correctly set clutch on a nice reel.
 
I have been using backwinding for numerous years, but had a barbel recently that just grabbed and spun the reel so quickly , nearly took my little finger with it when I applied pressure to the handle , suffice to say all my reels clutches are set to give before the line breaks now.
 
I can’t be the only one who’s preference here varies for the job in hand? I will often vary my approach to the way I play a fish depending on the factors around it, fish size, swim space etc.
For example I played a Barbel on 6lb hooklength on an 18 the other week. I essentially played that fish off a loose clutch and my finger was the break. If I’d tried to play that fish on the back wind I don’t think I would of had such control.
There’s too many factors to say I think this method or any other is best, it all depends on the situation. I do enjoy the sound of a screaming clutch, esp with an alloy spooled reel, almost as much as a screaming pin.

For pleasure of the fight, you can’t beat a whip...
 
Having grown up using the likes of Intrepid Monarch and then Mitchell 300's I always played fish by backwinding as the clutches on those early reels were hopeless. Even today, although I have Shimano and Daiwa front drag reels with much better clutches, my first action on hooking a fish is to flip the anti-reverse switch so I can backwind, the clutch is merely a last gasp safety measure.

ps different when I'm fishing tropical seas, clutch is the ONLY way to go!
 
On some reels 'flipping the anti reverse switch' isn't possible as they decided to do away with it.
For example Shimano Stradic 3000 Ci4.
 
Sorry Alan but resurrecting your old thread is a bit like the Brexit vote, did not like the answers 2 years ago so lets try again to tell you the method i use is more skillful and superior when its not. Yes i Backwound when i match fished 30 plus years ago,and caught some massive fish on very light tackle. But with fast running fish and light lines it meant sometimes taking your hands off of a whizzing round handle, completely losing all control and trusting to luck the fish did not get to a snag.There is a lot of difference between a mud pig in a snag free commercial where you can backwind all day and a big barbel in a snaggy area on a fast river. The majority of the time i fish small rivers with a centre pin but if i have to use a fixed spool i crank the clutch right up,anti reverse on and get savage fights that do not last long.
 
Used to backwind years ago but now play the fish of a clutch which I adjust accordingly as and when I need to loosen off or tighten during the fight
If fishing small snaggy rivers I tighten the clutch down with the anti reverse on and let the rod take the lunges not giving an inch of line... rod tip under the water and just hang on ....an even better method of feeling the fight through the rod. 😉
 
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