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Pinning down your hooklength and / or mainline?

A

Adam Francis

Senior Member & Supporter
I bought some tungsten droppers to use for my tench fishing, trying to pin the hooklength down & wondered if anyone used the same technique river fishing for barbel?

I do occasionally use lead core attached to my mainline to try & help my presentation & generally use pretty short hooklengths ( 8 inches ) but wondered if a single dropper halfway along might help things further?

Anyone do any of the above?
 
Adam. I also use the mainline backleads for my carp and tench fishing.

Also in certain low density/ big fish barbel fishing.

You could use some putty on the hooklength but I tend to use a shorter hooklength than you to ensure a pickup hooks the fish without any free movement. ie. 3 inches.

Graham
 
Coated braid hook length with tungsten putty mouse dropping size with a Gardner flying back lead does the trick for me.
 
I'm not sure it makes a huge difference if you have the hook length pinned down or not. Generally speaking its far more important in my view to consider what's happening behind the lead. Ignoring that for the moment, I think in theory you should aim to have the shortest hook length you can and that's simply to ensure a hook up. I don't think the fish are overly bothered by the presence of the lead itself. I think many would agree that a tight line in the set up risks spooking the fish. I am speaking in general terms here as you may see a different response on different waters based on angling pressure, barbel stock levels and of course whether you have a group of feeding/competitive fish in your swim.

Pinning down the line behind the lead gives rise to the debate over the merits of using back leads. Again much will depend on the swim you are fishing and also how well you know what's happening on the river bed (knowledge gained because the water is sufficiently clear or by casting a lead about). I have read articles that really beat the drum for back leads and have also seen the counter view (Bob Roberts for example) based on under water footage of barbel spooking on the "tight line" between the back and main leads. Personally, I use them when I can.

An alternative to using a back lead is simply to extend the hook length of course and on many (big) rivers I think this can be very effective but that's slightly outside of my area of expertise! When fishing the Wye though, I have sometimes found that when bites have slowed, extending the hook length has been effective.

A potentially big subject this and one that will give rise to varied responses and that's largely down to experiences on different rivers.

Generally speaking, my own view is that barbel are spooked more by what the feel rather than what they see.
 
Howard, it is said that if there is any sort of current, the fish can also be spooked by the the noise the mainline makes as it cuts through the surface tension of the water, if that entry/exit point is too near the feeding area in shallower water. Again, pinning the mainline down, or using longer hooklengths is the choice you have if you wish to avoid that.

Not TOO sure on that one, so can't be naffed myself...which may well be why I don't catch shed loads too often :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
How would a backlead be of any use on a deep river, say like parts of the severn, assuming you,ve got a big bow in the line, with the normal lead sitting on the bottom, wouldn,t the backlead slide down the line to meet the normal lead, or if you were using some sort of stop, i.e. a lead shot, to stop the backlead doing this, then wouldn,t the backlead be suspended off the bottom ?
 
I get some leadcore about 2 ft of it and take out the lead, i then rub it through some kryston drop 'em then every 6" i roll on some mouse droppings of lead putty. The sheathing gives something for the putty to grip to plus rubbingbit through some drop em gives it some weight and slight stiffness for anti tangle properties, works for me
 
Derek Funcks said:
How would a backlead be of any use on a deep river, say like parts of the severn, assuming you,ve got a big bow in the line, with the normal lead sitting on the bottom, wouldn,t the backlead slide down the line to meet the normal lead, or if you were using some sort of stop, i.e. a lead shot, to stop the backlead doing this, then wouldn,t the backlead be suspended off the bottom ?
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I position a back lead above a float stop Derek which also means you can adjust the distance between the main and back leads. You need a back lead of sufficient weight to ensure it actually rests on the bottom and I tend to use inline leads for this. But it ultimately depends on the swim (depth/flow/distance to be cast etc.) you are fishing as to whether a back lead is likely to be effective. I guess that's where fishing a long hook length is an alternative. I don't fish the big rivers that much, but on smaller rivers such as the Kennet, I am often fishing margin swims which means there is no casting involved as you are simply lowering the rig into the water allowing you to lay everything down gently and in the right position.
 
Chris Thomson said:
I get some leadcore about 2 ft of it and take out the lead, i then rub it through some kryston drop 'em then every 6" i roll on some mouse droppings of lead putty. The sheathing gives something for the putty to grip to plus rubbingbit through some drop em gives it some weight and slight stiffness for anti tangle properties, works for me
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Hi Chris, you have lost me on this one. Why do you take the lead out of the leadcore, thus making it lighter...then add tungsten putty to make it heavy again :eek:

There may be a logical reason...I just haven't worked it out yet.

Cheers, Dave.
 
1) leadcore can be quite stiff and im not fishing large areas of clean gravel so removing the lead makes it flexible and able to lie better on an uneven bed
2) in the unlikely event of being broken off its safer, no lead means its highly unlikely to get snagged up and i use a drop off inline lead with it so theres no lead to get caught up on any obstruction
 
Thanks for all the responses guys.

I too have heard about fish spooking off a back lead so never use them on the river preferring lead core. I fish the lower thames so not sure it would be that practical & I don't have real knowledge of the bottom.

Interesting point on the hooklength though so I will experiment with shorter lengths to see if I hook more. Crays are such a nightmare at the moment that I've swerved the river but I'll be back in a few days after all the forecast rain.

Thanks again guys.
 
Dave. I also use in-line leads with a float stop so I can adjust according to the flow and swim. In fact if I am fishing a tight far bank swim or over weed I will sometime even move it back down to the main lead! I do find a backlead a big help/confidence boost when fishing at close quarters or on a clear gravel botton on a low density big wary fish water.

Re Howards comment. I totally agree re visible line, the problem I have seen many times on clear rivers is the fish touching line that they cant see causing them to spook. Thats why fluro is generally a no no for me (except when after carp on still waters)

On the bigger rivers like the Thames/Severn/Trent I dispense with the back lead because of snags/rocks/zebra mussels etc. Also as generally a longer cast is used the main line often flattens naturally.

Graham
 
David Gauntlett said:
Howard, it is said that if there is any sort of current, the fish can also be spooked by the the noise the mainline makes as it cuts through the surface tension of the water, if that entry/exit point is too near the feeding area in shallower water. Again, pinning the mainline down, or using longer hooklengths is the choice you have if you wish to avoid that.

Not TOO sure on that one, so can't be naffed myself...which may well be why I don't catch shed loads too often :D

Cheers, Dave.
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I think your right not to be naffed with that sort of thing Dave, I wonder if the supporters of that theory think the fish can tell the difference between line entering the water and other objects, reeds, twigs, shopping trolleys :D
 
I was told recently by someone that has observed barbel over many years in clear water, that he had watched one particular fish go through a routine when encountering a bed of bait. Amazingly, the fish would position itself in mid-water, pectoral fins extended out as far as possible, and it would then circle the baited area as if checking for the presence of fishing line.

There is enough underwater footage of barbel to convince me that barbel can tell the difference between weed etc and fishing line. They will happily feed with floating weed knocking into them but if they come into contact with fishing line they are off.

Of course we may all have experiences where we have caught well with short hook lengths and no back leads and perhaps no other attempt to disguise the presence of our rigs. But I think this would generally be in waters suffering little in the way of angling pressure or where you are fortunate to have a large group of barbel in your swim that are feeding confidentially and competitively.
 
Graham Young said:
I think your right not to be naffed with that sort of thing Dave, I wonder if the supporters of that theory think the fish can tell the difference between line entering the water and other objects, reeds, twigs, shopping trolleys :D
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We'll never know for sure but as im fishing a low stock density stretch i'll play the percentage game and if i make every chance to disguise hide and conceal everything and i get an extra fish or two then happy days
 
Chris Thomson said:
We'll never know for sure but as im fishing a low stock density stretch i'll play the percentage game and if i make every chance to disguise hide and conceal everything and i get an extra fish or two then happy days
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Chris how can you "disguise, hide and conceal" your line entering the water?
 
"Upstream ledger whenever you can"

One of THE best bits of barbel fishing advice. Negates the need to pin the line above the lead down as the flow does it for you.

To backlead effectively you need to be able to lower the rig in, IMO.

The thing with backleading is that bites come completely out of the blue. No knocks or indications, just WHAM. Nearly lost the rod on a 9lber a few evenings ago, I was 6 inches from my reel but the bite was that lightening fast, and the hooked fish bolted out of the swim quicker than the baitrunner could engage. I was as white as Casper during the fight!

ATB
 
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