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Pike baits – Food for thought!

Steve Cole

Steve Cole

Senior Member
With the temperature’s now falling many of us will be thinking of venturing out after Pike rather than struggling to catch a Barbel, self included. Over the last few years I’ve been using reasonable sized ‘silvers’ as bait because IMO bigger baits catch bigger Pike.

Whilst I’m aware that Pike will eat Pike (Well documented by Scuba’s photos on the old forum) I sort of put it down to a rare event. I then stumbled across an exceptionally well written and thought provoking post on another site by an ex BFW member. (Search - Pike insomniacs) Now I’d just love to give this ago, just one small problem – it maybe harder to catch a Pike intended for use as livebait than the main target. So, where to from here? Well, the water also contains small Zeds in numbers which I think I can catch . So I’m thinking of giving this a go (That’s Zeds for Pike not Z 4 Z !!) I’m thinking that the Zeds form an increasingly large part of the Pikes diet not just because of the meal size but also because of the survival issue (Pike clearly love Perch too). So a few Q’s

1. Anyone tried this before?
2. Anyone think this is a dumb idea :eek: (please state why!!)
3. Anybody know of a Pike attack on a Zed in any form
4. Anybody caught a Zed with obvious attack injuries. (I ask this because every Zed I catch is always immaculate)

Looking forward to your comments with interest

Steve
 
Steve, back in the late 90s a few of us (well two of us; myself and Simon Pennington) in the Cotswold Region of the PAC fished on Loch Ken with live jacks. We caught plenty of bigger pike, but found that the jacks werent necessarily a selective bait for the size of fish we hoped to catch. We were hooking 2lb jacks on a three treble set up and ended up catching catching 8-10lb fish on them.:eek: We were hoping for much bigger fish. :( We caught similar sized pike and bigger on deadbaits. But that is not to say it wouldnt work elsewhere or at another time when possibly bigger fish were around.

As for zeds as bait; cant see why not, they quite often get snaffled by pike when being reeled in on lures or when taking small deads.

Paul
 
Hi Paul.

2lb Livebaits :eek:

Okay, I know this really isn’t that big – the gob on my PB was huge. Appreciate though that hooking can be an issue, so I understand a 3 hook rig.

Personally I was thinking baits of 1lb’ish initially (I can always scale up later), giving it a go when its cooler and bait fish are thin on the ground. My thoughts are that this will be a more effective time for this method. The other prime time would possibly be around spawning (I’ve an idea where these areas may be).

Presumably your trips to Scotland were to target the pre spawning fish in Spring?

Steve
 
Steve,

2lb livebaits, bit of a touchy subject i know, as many dont agree with the principle of it, but i dont see it being a problem in cold conditions except for the fact that big pike can get lethargic when its really cold. We were on Ken in April 1998.

I went to Sweden in 1996 and we were trolling smaller fish of the size you are talking about, but again didnt really get into the bigger fish using them. That could have been due to a number of reasons and we may not have been fishing the areas where big fish were located. I think on conclusion, that it could be worth trying in areas where you definitely know big fish lurk at certain times, because on reflection, we were fishing Ken and lakes in Sweden, with very little knowledge other than trying to locate drop offs and bait fish holding areas with a fish finder. Often, that just isnt enough is it!

I think its worth persevering with.

Paul
 
Cant see any advantage in what you're proposing. As Paul says, it is unlikely to be selective.

Pike eat pike; Zeds eat zeds; Perch eat perch. Not out of preference, just when they're there.

Most learned literature (and my own belief and experience) is that deads sort out the bigger specimens of Pike and Zander. Larger for pike, but Zander may have "variable" size tastes, depending on the water.
 
MMMMM? Over many years, on many different types of waters, I,ve used all types and sizes of both live and deadbaits.with some mixed results. Big baits, whether live, or dead generally proved more troublesome, and much less productive than what I would call "decent " sized baits(6-8oz).
Hooking setups on big baits are an issue, but I now use a single circle hook, on all sizes of baits, lives, just lip hooked, deads, fished with a braid hair setup, touchwood, 100% hookup rate after 2 seasons, well worth using.
The new Marine Bill, makes using big livebaits illegal!!!!!!!!! And 3 treble hook setups are just barbaric, and unnecessary!!!!!
peter
 
Some very effective lures are pike patterns and the only thing that will eat a pike is a bigger pike. However, just lobbing a 2lb pike into a water will not necessarily catch you a giant.

Pike will target food that is readily available and on most waters that will be silver fish. On reservoirs it will likely be trout and on some Lochs there just seems to be thousands of small pike. It stands to reason which bait to use where. On one water I used to fish, the predominant species was perch and the pike took a live perch readily but when other lives were used (brought to the water in less enlightened times) they also caught just as well.

I wouldn't get hung up on using a particular fish for bait, just make sure that its the size of bait you want and that it is fresh.
 
Hi Guys

Just to further clarify more thought's why I’ve been toying with this idea………….

Not wishing to have to apply for section 30 consent :rolleyes:, I’m planning on targeting the easiest bait species in the 1lb bracket to catch. (Not yet proven of course and I’m hoping one this size cures the problem below and by its very nature be slightly selective toward the bigger Pike).

I’d happily use a 1lb Bream, Roach or Gudgeon :eek:!! but it may well take a few days to put one this size on the bank. Going by my personal experience, there are good numbers of small Zeds, and an hour or two with fish cubes and suitable attractors should result in a bait. If they are a readily available species to me they must be to the Pike.

Smaller livebaits just get hit by Small Zeds all the time – It's a nightmare.

Pete - The ‘Marine Bill’ with regard to livebait size is a new one on me. Have you got a link for some further info?

Cheers

Steve
 
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Hi steve the best place to look for any information on the marine bill and livebait is the pike anglers club of great britain.
 
Having tried all sorts of ideas over 50+ years of piking I have come to the conclusion now that I fish with NOTHING over 6 inches long. You get a run you strike, end of. Every 20 + I have had has been on half a mackeral or smaller. When they are fry feeding you will struggle to "match the hatch" and they will ignore anything slightly larger than what they are used to at that time. Barrie Rickards contempleted all of this (see his book Big Pike) and if I remember right he didn't think it was worth it. The easiest way around this, and the lazy man's way around this is, when you are landing a small Pike, as inevitably we all do, don't be in a rush to reel it in......they will often get grabbed... but then they often let go too, but at least you can target that area until you catch it. I was lure fishing last year when a large fish grabbed a Jack I had hooked on a lure. The bigger Pike let go, I was standing in almost 4 feet of water, and as I was taking the lure out the big Pike had swam round the back of me and took it again out of my arms. It pulled a treble into one of my fingers at the time so it was quite memorable. It let go of US eventually. I returned the next day with Sardines and had a 22, a 23 and a half and a 12. They had stayed put it was just a matter of finding them in the first place.
 
If you look on the EA national bylaw section, the law on live fish for bait states that you can take upto 15 fish upto 20cm in length, this does not include zander though, so no worries there, give them a go, try a small lure for catching them, or a small livebait, they might well be a tad more user friendly than small jacks, they just either find the nearest weedbed to hide in, or just sulk immobile in the water!
It might well be worthtrying a Z deadbait, either whole or half, you could catch either pike or a big Z, big pike are not always eager to give chase!!!!
nothing ventured, nothing gained, dare to be different!
peter
 
Hi steve,click on newsfeed at the top of the page then scroll down there might be something of interest .
 
Hi John - Yes, I may ultimately come to the same conclusion BUT I think there is a rather unusual situation / balance right now that may make using the larger Zed/Pike livebait worth pursuing.

One of my River 20's was on a Gudgeon :eek:
 
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Hi Steve, I think the problem is two fold, where would you put the hooks and when would you strike. On the rare occassions I live bait now I always lip hook, even with 2 trebles. That way the pike engulfs the fish and takes both sets in at the same time. The fish remains lively and if at the end of the day there are no runs it goes back. You can't lip hook the Pike so they would have to be put along the flank. There's a bit of decorating going on here so I can't check Barrie Rickards book as it has been "put somewhere safe", but I remember discussing it with him in the 70's along with other big baits and he said "Don't bother" I recently saw a bit of film on the internet, sorry I can't even begin to say where it was, but it showed a relatively large double grab a fish of about half a pound and swim around with it constantly crushing it to kill it. It was obviously being "followed" by a camera man but the scene went on for minutes without it showing any sign of turning it and swallowing it.Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking your idea but all sorts of things can be a problem, like getting the bait out into the water in the first place, and keeping it in the open. Best of Luck though, John
 
Steve, a freind of mine introduced me to what I can only refer to as a fantastic bait which did, and still catches him loads of big pike. Jack pike fillet!!!! Yes you read it right and I have witnessed it catching a 25lber, so can confirm he has not lost his marbles!
If he catches a VERY small Jack, he takes it home and freezes it, and then on his next session he defrosts it and removes long, slim, fillets with a very sharp knife and fishes them 'sink and draw' style.
The movement is very natural and works brilliantly!!
Also the skin is ultra tuff and stays on no matter how hard the cast!!
 
I was lucky enough for a period of 5-6 years to have unrestricted accsess to a couple of pits run by a trout farm. Along with the fishing, we had an unlimited supply of bait on tap, mainly trout of all sizes, but also roach, netted by the farm, destined for billingsgate!, We tried every size of bait, from 4oz to 1lb 8oz +, we caught fish on all sizes, but the most consistant producers of big fish(20lb+) was the 6-8oz size, the larger baits caught fish, but usually 10-15lb, I cant recall every getting a 20lber on a big bait. My personal conclusion from that time, was that outsize baits(ie, ones you cant cast) were a waste of time.
Given the bait supply available, we still tried seabaits, and the most signifcant results all came to herrings, 6-8oz size, outfished trout and roach deads by 5-1
Food for thought!!!!!!
peter
 
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