Pecticide damage to Aquatic environment

[Stewart Kemp]

Could this be one of the issues that have been responsible for the decline in some of our rivers, especially those lowland waters in arable farming areas where these chemicals are used?

BBC News - Banned pesticides may be having wider environmental impacts

'Neonicotinoids are systemic poisons'
'In water, less than one part per billion of imidacloprid is sufficient to kill mayflies'
'Research published in the US looked at the impact on birds while in the Netherlands, data suggested a decline in aquatic populations.'

The EU has agreed a 2 year ban on them from December something our Government opposed.
The evidence is not conclusive yet but something is seriously wrong in some of the rivers I've known all my life.

 

[Lee Iley]

Interisting stuff is that mate, it makes you think though, all sorts af toxic waste and pecticides could be leaking into our rivers all over the country..

 

[Ash Gould]

Good post.

This has always struck me as the main problem with the Great Ouse, and any other rivers whose fish populations are suffering. There is plenty of evidence to back this line of thought up with too. Makes the most sense to me anyway. No food = No fish.
Only problem with it (as far as I can make out) is that its not as cathartic as otter bashing! (or crays or comorants!).

 

[David Gauntlett]

Good post.

This has always struck me as the main problem with the Great Ouse, and any other rivers whose fish populations are suffering. There is plenty of evidence to back this line of thought up with too. Makes the most sense to me anyway. No food = No fish.
Only problem with it (as far as I can make out) is that its not as cathartic as otter bashing! (or crays or comorants!).

Now now Ash...in the majority of my otter/cormorant/cray bashing posts I admit that pollution is the basic problem....I have never denied that. In my more recent posts I have mentioned the new-ish 'Insidious, unseen chemical' pollutants that I feel are the up and coming problem. There are HUGE numbers of chemicals in our waters now that never used to be there. The fact that they can now synthesize new chemicals is worrying for a start. Apart from the new ranges of insecticides/pesticides/fungicides/fertility treatments/fertilisers/decay inhibitors and on and on ad infinitum, the amount of medicinal/cosmetic/whatever drugs consumed by humans and animals now is astonishing. Even worse, many of these pass through the system and end up in our water via sewage treatment plants etc....which take NONE of these nasties out!

I recognise this as a huge problem Ash, and that in all likelihood is worse than we understand...and probably will get worse still. Many are trying to claim that our waters are cleaner than they have ever been, therefore pollution is NOT the problem. It seems they are confusing a lack of suspended solids/organic pollutants (good old fashioned dirt) which makes water LOOK cleaner...with a lack of pollutants...which is understandable in laymen such as you and I....but unforgivable from those charged with looking after our water quality and thereby our health.

In fairness to the average EA or whatever footsoldier on the ground, this certainly isn't their fault. Many of the more insidious new pollutants are much harder to test for...and these guys do not have the equipment capable of detecting it anyway. Simple as that. BUT....these things CAN be detected...with the right gear. Unfortunately, in these times of cuts, don't expect nice new multifunction kits to be issued any time soon. Nor the means of removing those things once detected.

In conjunction with that, we have the relatively new (or is it?) concept of mysterious failures of "full investigations" of anything, from pollution, hospital care, banking or whatever...to find anything wrong at all. It seems that if recognising that a problem exists means that it will need to be fixed...and that will cause loss of profit...and consequent cuts to shareholder and executive payouts....then it AINT going to happen, unless public opinion forces it. THAT may well be the key problem...the root problem causing most of the worlds ills if you think about it. Don't go there though. It is what we are....I don't think we can change that.

Although I know you will refuse to accept this Ash...the simple point I am trying to make has always been this. WHATEVER the basic problem is (and I agree pollution is the most likely culprit) our fish in many of our rivers are hovering on the edge....they survive, but only just. In those circumstances, do you imagine for one second that the return of otters, the mass increase of cormorants, the advent of mink, foreign crays and lord knows what other crabs and scaly monsters etc......will be likely to help that precarious survival....or not? Are these vast armies of toothy, clawed, some never before seen critters and nasties likely to be good for our hobby....or bad?

Of course we have to tackle pollution, otherwise it alone may well wipe out everything....including the predators, and possibly us as well. BUT....that, for reasons mentioned, is going to take a VERY long time. Meanwhile...do we let our ailing fish populations be wiped out by increasing numbers of native and alien predators? It seems that between them they can demolish whole sections of rivers purely because the combined level of predation is unsustainable by a fish population already pushed to the edge by pollution. Does that sound good to you mate? Or should we perhaps give them a helping hand, in the hope that they can then hang on until pollution is finally brought down to manageable levels (which I suspect is the best we can ever hope for) It is my honest belief that fish can handle one set of problems at a time, for a fairly sustained period of time. The nightmare mix of predators that we have mostly unwittingly unleashed on them now is probably that infamous straw that broke the camels back.

Surely we should at least TRY to deal with or at least alleviate the problems we can actually see killing our fish...while we wait for the big clean-up?

I just find it a no brainer mate....but then, perhaps I am just a daft old fool.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Ash Gould]

Corr blimey, if Id inserted a smiley thingy at the end of my post would that of saved all of that being directed at me? Smiley, joke, lol.

Although I know you will refuse to accept this Ash...the simple point I am trying to make has always been this. WHATEVER the basic problem is (and I agree pollution is the most likely culprit) our fish in many of our rivers are hovering on the edge....they survive, but only just. In those circumstances, do you imagine for one second that the return of otters, the mass increase of cormorants, the advent of mink, foreign crays and lord knows what other crabs and scaly monsters etc......will be likely to help that precarious survival....or not? Are these vast armies of toothy, clawed, some never before seen critters and nasties likely to be good for our hobby....or bad?

Dave, I don’t have to accept your position to believe that predation will not be good for specimen fish stocks. What you need to understand is that I feel moving on from the basic problems regarding our rivers is futile and therefre blaming problems that result from the basic problems is a no brainer. Im of the opinion that it’s the first nails in the coffin that stuff you up, not the last. I don’t think otters were good for the last remnants of the Ouse barbel population, but on the flip side I don’t think you can blame otters for a river not having a healthy enough fish population to support it. Rivers should be capable of supporting otters and if they cant then somethings amiss.

Unfortunately being at work I cant write massive posts that cover my multi-faceted views regarding otters. I was told yesterday of one being shot on the Great Ouse over the last week, I must admit to being glad at hearing that people were taking the management of them into their own hands. I just wish the management of pollution would be such a simple one.

All the best, and I hope your on the mend Dave.

 

[David Gauntlett]

Hi Ash, I do understand and agree with your position that "moving on from the basic problems regarding our rivers is futile"....and that is NOT the action I am suggesting we take. I have always agreed with you that pollution is the main problem (and have been slammed for saying that in the past) so in no way would I propose that we abandon that fight in favour of trying to bring predation under control.

All I am saying is that while the BIG fight is going on, we really ought to try to keep our remaining fish alive until hopefully, that fight is won. What point would there be if in 20/30 years time (or whatever) we achieved totally pristine water...but there were no fish left to enjoy them?

To my mind, the only real chance we have of beating the forces ranged against us on either problem is a VERY strong representative body fighting our case at government level. There is only one candidate for that position, the AT (whatever issues we may have with some of their policies). If we ever do get our act together and fully support them (even if that means making membership compulsory, part of the licence for instance), the fight against polluters can begin in earnest...and the predation problem will be a sideline that will NOT detract from the main issue.

Until that time arrives...lets keep arguing about it mate...it keeps the issue fresh and relevant...even though we both know we aint a million miles apart on this, if truth be known It wouldn't hurt to keep nagging locally about the ludicrous predation levels either

Yes, I am on the mend for now thanks, and I appreciate you asking. I get my MRI scan results tomorrow too. I just hope it shows up something...and that the something they find is a problem that they can do something about You really need optimism in all these things I guess Ash

Very best regards,

Dave.

 

[Roger Carswell]

When I was a lad in the 1950's I was introduced to fishing on the river Severn by my old dad. For many other people like me, this introduction to fishing became a lifelong passion. Over the years I've spent countless hours lounging about on riverbanks and enjoying all that nature had to offer up. I've also been lucky enough to meet loads of like-minded souls and have made many long lasting friendships. So what am I leading up to......well, instead of spending my retirement years basking in the idyllic aura of my local river Severn catching 2lb roach and huge barbel, I find myself turning into a regular Victor Meldrew. The river I now fish is a shadow of what it once was. Look at any angling website and serious river anglers' conversations inevitably come round to arguments about water quality and predation. These are huge issues and I really fear that future generations will be deprived of the opportunity to experience the sort of river fishing that I have been privileged enough to enjoy. I live in the Shrewsbury area and I think it's fair to say that in recent years we've been dealt a particularly bad hand. We have cormorants, goosanders, otters and there also appears to be water quality problems, hence the absence of the once dense ranunculus beds that were once commonplace. This week alone, I have seen continuing evidence of otter predation - three barbel with mutilated tails and another with hardly any dorsal fin - I suppose you could say that they are lucky because they are still alive - I hate to guess how many specimen sized fish are disappearing on a daily basis. I suppose it's only a matter of time before signal crayfish, zebra mussels and mitten crabs also put in an appearance! So what's the answer.... well I wish I knew. The EA claim that they are under-funded by the government and politicians seem to be too busy rooting about in fiscal troughs and wanting to start another war in the Middle East. We could always get in touch with BBC's Countryfile and get the most boring man on the planet (John Craven) on the job... but hang on a minute, the programme's producers are all cast from the same mould and the countryside is somewhere to go for the weekend when their posh inner city dwellings are being up-graded by Polish plumbers....one glimpse of an otter and they have an instant orgasm! Bitter and twisted, me....you bet your life I am! In a local newspaper earlier this year it was announced the EA together with Shropshire Wildlife are creating more otter holts on local tributaries of the Severn....I rest my case. Now where did I put the razor blades and that large jar of tranquilisers!!!!!!!!!!