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Joe Winstanley said:
Trout/Halibut pellets - designed for aquaculture systems where the aim is for rhe fish to grow rapidly, but not to live long lives. Neither play a part in my fishing anymore.
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Me neither. Never use them.
However I do understand why people do because as a bait they really take some beating especially in the hands of a skilled angler.
The size variations available make them such easy baits to feed and keep fish occupied over a long time. Cheap…. Pva friendly….. present well on hairs or bands…… fly out of feeders…… sink like stones…… keep forever!

It definitely takes more effort not to use them in your fishing
 
Richard Isaacs said:
Me neither. Never use them.
However I do understand why people do because as a bait they really take some beating especially in the hands of a skilled angler.
The size variations available make them such easy baits to feed and keep fish occupied over a long time. Cheap…. Pva friendly….. present well on hairs or bands…… fly out of feeders…… sink like stones…… keep forever!

It definitely takes more effort not to use them in your fishing
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Agreed.

I do still use pellets in some situations, just not containing fishmeal or high oil levels.
 
Richard Isaacs said:
That’s not a good thing David.
Halibut pellets are 40% oil. That’s like us being conditioned on a billy bob fry up
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Richard, I believe the oldskool halibuts had an oil content of around 25%, probably as much as they could force a pellet to hold. Many of the current baits sold as halibuts have a lower oil content of around 15%, still not particularly healthy if that's all a barbel is consuming. I might be wrong but the 40% that you were referring to was the protein content.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Agreed.

I do still use pellets in some situations, just not containing fishmeal or high oil levels.
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Joe
Out of interest, do you know what happens when a halibut or elips ( hi-oil) pellet is left in running water?
We all know out of the bag, they are a hard, shiny, oily pellet. After say 20-30 minutes at this time of year it transforms to a softer, insipid looking, fluffy thing when you reel in.
I wonder does the majority of the oil start to leak out as it absorbs water? That's what it looks like but only my view?
Would krill pellets fall into a high oil category?
I'm also aware that barbel do like them when they are straight out of the bag and oily as hell.
Would the barbel exhibit any physical signs of a ' too high oil' content diet that I could look out for?

Not an inflammatory question but you seem to know your stuff on this and I am interested in your opinion as I do use pellets, I'd like to think I use them sensibly and definitely in moderation but clearly you have made a stand on this so interested to hear
Cheers
 
Paul Richardson said:
Joe
Out of interest, do you know what happens when a halibut or elips ( hi-oil) pellet is left in running water?
We all know out of the bag, they are a hard, shiny, oily pellet. After say 20-30 minutes at this time of year it transforms to a softer, insipid looking, fluffy thing when you reel in.
I wonder does the majority of the oil start to leak out as it absorbs water? That's what it looks like but only my view?
Would krill pellets fall into a high oil category?
I'm also aware that barbel do like them when they are straight out of the bag and oily as hell.
Would the barbel exhibit any physical signs of a ' too high oil' content diet that I could look out for?

Not an inflammatory question but you seem to know your stuff on this and I am interested in your opinion as I do use pellets, I'd like to think I use them sensibly and definitely in moderation but clearly you have made a stand on this so interested to hear
Cheers
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Absolutely no idea about the oil leakage rate Paul, my hunch is that it would be proportional through the breakdown process - but it's just a hunch.

Krill pellets - not something I've used.

Impact of high oil trout/halibut/salmon pellets - there are three main reasons I've stopped using them. Firstly, years ago when I worked on a fishery/fish farm my boss and his wife who were both highly qualified aquaculturalists always had a bee-in-their bonnet about them and wouldn't allow there use in their fishery. They were adament they were bad for the liver and kidney systems of the fish. Obviously they never used for growing on fish, using more expensive low oil 'coarse' pellets. That was about 25 years ago, but it's always stuck with me, so when Inhave used pellets in the past it always been in low quantities. I understand that this has been subsequently backed up by Studies etc, I'm sure you'll find a plethora of stuff if you go digging.

Secondly, given all the health warnings surrounding eating farmed fish, especially salmon, e.g. high levels of dioxins which are proven carcinogens, that sets alarm bells ringing with me. No such health issues are concerned with eating wild fish...make of that what you will. I know we don't eat barbel (I hope..), but I'm sure you get my point.

Thirdly, our oceans are in a parlous state, and over fishing is a major issue. Harvesting fish to feed to fish just for pleasure angling seems unsustainable to be..each to their own but it's not for me. Hence I've stopped using fishmeals full stop in my baits. This is the major reason for me.

Another issue is also digestibility. Apart from a trip or two to the Havon in summer, nearly all my barbel fishing is done between Nov and the end of the season. Having an oily bait that fish struggle to digest is of no use to me in those conditions.

Oh and finally, I really don't miss the rank smell of pellets lingering on my hands!
 
Derek Funcks said:
Hi Joe, what would you suggest as a suitable alternative to a halibut/trout pellet
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Boilies made from milk proteins and bird seeds for a start, hemp, maggots, casters etc.

In terms of non-fishmeal pellet, then CSL pellets, ewe nuts and the non-fishmeal pellets used in aquaculture such as these:

cmcsfishfeed.com

CMCS ACE High Protein Grower Fishery Pellet (Spring/Summer)

CMCS High Protein pellets are produced using the finest locally sourced non GM British ingredients. Manufactured from a blend of wheat, soya products. Available in 6mm pellets to cater for many species, they provide a source of balanced energy from digestible fibre, yeasts, oil and starch and...
cmcsfishfeed.com cmcsfishfeed.com

They also do the above in a lower oil variety 4% rather than 7%.
 
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Joe Winstanley said:
Absolutely no idea about the oil leakage rate Paul, my hunch is that it would be proportional through the breakdown process - but it's just a hunch.

Krill pellets - not something I've used.

Impact of high oil trout/halibut/salmon pellets - there are three main reasons I've stopped using them. Firstly, years ago when I worked on a fishery/fish farm my boss and his wife who were both highly qualified aquaculturalists always had a bee-in-their bonnet about them and wouldn't allow there use in their fishery. They were adament they were bad for the liver and kidney systems of the fish. Obviously they never used for growing on fish, using more expensive low oil 'coarse' pellets. That was about 25 years ago, but it's always stuck with me, so when Inhave used pellets in the past it always been in low quantities. I understand that this has been subsequently backed up by Studies etc, I'm sure you'll find a plethora of stuff if you go digging.

Secondly, given all the health warnings surrounding eating farmed fish, especially salmon, e.g. high levels of dioxins which are proven carcinogens, that sets alarm bells ringing with me. No such health issues are concerned with eating wild fish...make of that what you will. I know we don't eat barbel (I hope..), but I'm sure you get my point.

Thirdly, our oceans are in a parlous state, and over fishing is a major issue. Harvesting fish to feed to fish just for pleasure angling seems unsustainable to be..each to their own but it's not for me. Hence I've stopped using fishmeals full stop in my baits. This is the major reason for me.

Another issue is also digestibility. Apart from a trip or two to the Havon in summer, nearly all my barbel fishing is done between Nov and the end of the season. Having an oily bait that fish struggle to digest is of no use to me in those conditions.

Oh and finally, I really don't miss the rank smell of pellets lingering on my hands!
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All sound stuff Joe as ever.Thanks.
I can live with the smell, I got covered in N-Butyric a few years ago. Anything is preferable to that pong.
The overfishing point is very pertinent.
Like you I don't fish pellet in the winter but I do a lot of piking which doesn't help with the above point on overfishing as I use a lot of sea baits.
 
Ewe nuts, there used to be a chap fished the Ribble who only ever used them , he had a smallholding , kept sheep . When setting out for a day on the river he just grabbed a couple of handfulls on the way to the car ( handfulls of nuts , not sheep )
He always seemed to catch well enough .

I have always wanted to try them as a bait myself but a bag costs a fortune .
Must make friends with a sheep farmer, there are lots in the area where I live .

David
 
Richard Isaacs said:
Not sure. I don’t think used in moderation any bait is going to cause them harm,
it’s when it’s piled in without thought as lots of people do.
I often think is that really a good thing?

I dread to think. Some of them never go off and absolutely stink. I would imagine not very good at all.

For me spam is a bit different because it’s really only used as a high attraction hook bait.
It’s not getting handfuls thrown in the river.
However your right. Fat content is really high.
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Is piling in any bait good? Unless it's naturals I question any amount that isn't required for your fairly immediate fishing.
 
Fishing halibut pellets is akin to us having a fry up on a weekend for breakfast IMO. Perfectly fine in moderation.

It will be a minor part of a fishes diet after they've been gorging on naturals in the absence of anglers. It would take a massive amount of pellet going in and barbel to eat all of it to be detrimental to their health. Lots will be simply washed away and break up and lots more will be snapped up by other species.

Just my opinion, not a proven (as far as I know) fact!
 
I had my first barbel session of the season yesterday through today. I changed tack on a venue that failed to produce for me last season. I offered no loose feed at all, fished one rod with small pva bags on the hook, the other with nothing but the hookbait.

Bare hookbait gave a 4lb chub and the small bag gave the smallest barbel I've ever had at about 2.5-3lb

It remains to be seen if I'd have caught by piling it in, I'll continue with the minimalist approach for the foreseeable.
 
Richard Isaacs said:
My fairly immediate fishing?
Sorry Damian but I’m not following that. Can you elaborate please
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Anyone's immediate fishing, ie. chucking a bit in before you start rather than prolonged prebaiting or piling it in for a couple of days later.
 
Joe Winstanley said:
Are you still married Paul? If so she must really love you!!

Pike dead baits - I'd never really considered that tbh. I do like roach/rudd though, and there is something satisfying about using one's you've caught yourself.
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It was horrific - I felt like a walker from the Walking Dead, but a great excuse to utilise the spare room. Never used it since.
I love livebaiting but every year I find it harder to do, unlike in my twenties when I had a tank set-up with about 2 dozen rainbows on tap at any given time and didn't give a stuff, also pike fished all year round - how things change.
Take no pleasure in impaling a roach but the hunter gatherer prey drive still over-rides sensitivity for now.
 
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