Otters on the Kennet

[Alex Gowney]

I sometimes despair about the wise-cracks and sad humour that associates Otter threads. The reason I highlight Dave's post is what happened to the river that runs to the east of the county town on whose western outskirts I live.

It is not a well-known (Barbel or anything else) river (The Hull - I cohold the Barbel River record). Two years ago the Seals followed the Sea-Trout upstream from the Humber (as they do every year). This time, however, they stayed and for the following season and half remained and harvested the Barbel (one fish estimated above the 12lb 8oz river record was seen to be killed, quarter eaten and discarded), and anything else - several near thirty pound Pike have not been caught since, I have photos of them surfacing with near-2lb Roach and large Bream. End result (two years on) is many no longer fish as the 20 minute travel is pointless after multiple blanks, follow-on is the local tackle shop has closed as their custiomer base has disappeared.

Now you cannot compare the damage what Otters do with Seals (tho..many on or left from the Yorkshire Derwent, where they were re-introduced in the 1990s may care to differ). But whatever you point of view on how "nice" nature is in its various and diverse nature, a lack of thought in these postings is plainly indicative of shallow thought.

That's very sad Darryl, I cannot understand anglers who champion the creatures who ruin their sport. It's true animals eat to survive and we fish for pleasure. It is also true that these predators have a right to exist. But there is no law saying we have to be happy about it.

 

[Andrew Thomas]

If we fished for minnows rather than barbel would we support control of Kingfishers?

 

[Paul Boote]

If we fished for minnows rather than barbel would we support control of Kingfishers?

Excellent, Andrew. We'd be after perch, chub, trout and minor pike, too.


PS - Plus the rich irony that in the catching of our beloved barbel we turn to a blind eye to the gazillion, oily, marine "trash fish" that go to make many barbel-fishers' bait of choice, pellets (scandalous price-rises in the pipeline ... who can we moan at...?).

 

[Ian Grant]

Laughed so much i nearly cried !!

 

[Paul Boote]

Fully aware of what I wrote at the start and just what I was letting myself in for by coming back, but when faced with wall-to-wall S4Brains..........

 

[David Gauntlett]

Exactly right Darryl. The claim by some that because something is perceived by them to be 'natural' means that it is unquestionably acceptable....does not always stand up to even cursory examination.

Bears and wolves were once indigenous to this country. Were they to miraculously do the impossible, and make a come back (with or without human help )....and proceed to do what they 'naturally' do...it would NOT be accepted, would it? Not by those on either side of the otter fence, or anyone else. And yet, what they would be doing WOULD be natural.

Now I know that last is far fetched and silly...but I use it merely to make my point. Looking at it in that context, it is true, isn't it?...however fatuous you may label it as an example.

I repeat yet again (just for those who like to tell porkies) that I do NOT believe it would be in anyones best interests to call for an otter cull. I do NOT hate otters...or any other wildlife, come to that. I do NOT blame otters for what they do....that would be stupid and irrational...and I try at least to leave that to others

Like everyone else, I have no idea what the eventual outcome of the otter situation may be. It may just as well turn out that the wipe-outs already noted will prove to be few and far between...or that everything settles down, and a natural ballance will occur...and everything will be just 'jim dandy' once more. Either way, at my age...if my river IS decimated, then the hoped for 'natural' recovery will probably be too late to be of benefit to me...and yes, dreadful as it may seem to some...I know I AM selfish enough that I would feel utterly peed off about that

All I am trying to say is that I do NOT have to smile and gracefully accept the possible demise of my favourite hobby, just because I am told that it is 'natural' (even if I do accept that there is nothing that can now be done about that situation)

And I do not have to accept the irresponsibly way that relatively large numbers of captive raised otters have been released into various parts of the country. I gather that no research was done with regard to the possible effects that raising these animals unnaturally in enclosures may have had on their normal territorial instincts...or whether any modified behaviour these raised animals may have aquired could be passed on to wild otters, possibly reducing the usual huge range the wild animal requires.

Suddenly the 'natural' could become very unnatural...with disastrous results for every critter involved....man meddling yet again?

Never mind though...just keep on smiling and accepting...stiff upper lip and all that

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Paul Boote]

Endless, repetitive, worst case, what if?, shouldn't've let 'em (otters, in this case) in in the first place, hypothesizing and griping and generally feeling hugely put-upon and terribly sorry for yourself. Nope. No putting the genie back in the lamp / bottle, no return to an all was well with Britain 1950s (change date according to personal taste - some might opt for, say, 1870s; certainly a Downton Abbey / Brideshead pre-1945 or -1914), just living with the world as it is now and not forever whining about how you feel it should be, but, if truthful with yourself, know it can't be. In short, get over it.

Night night.

 

[David Gauntlett]

Endless, repetitive, worst case, what if?, shouldn't've let 'em (otters, in this case) in in the first place, hypothesizing and griping and generally feeling hugely put-upon and terribly sorry for yourself. Nope. No putting the genie back in the lamp / bottle, no return to an all was well with Britain 1950s (change date according to personal taste - some might opt for, say, 1870s; certainly a Downton Abbey / Brideshead pre-1945 or -1914), just living with the world as it is now and not forever whining about how you feel it should be, but, if truthful with yourself, know it can't be. In short, get over it.

Night night.

' No putting the genie back in the lamp/ bottle, no returning to an all was well with Britain 1950s'..............

And that from a man endlessly waffling on about some weird fantasy world he lives in that is FIRMLY lodged in the past, as are the bizarre imaginary folk who people it...including the lovingly (feverishly?) described 'lady guides' who are obviously a product of whatever depths his personal demons drag him to at night

I should try living IN the world as it is now Paul, see how the real world suits you, before you accuse me of 'forever whining about how I feel it should be'. I have every right to an opinion, and to feel saddened by mans continuous folly...and you will certainly not stop me from expressing those rights or feelings, however abusive or sarcastic you may get.

Perhaps you should try coming down from those heady hights occasionally dear boy. Could be that if you did not see yourself as such a vastly superior being, condemned to spend his real life surrounded by mere mortals, or 'Wall to wall S4Brains' as you so condescendingly describe us...you would not have to invent another world to escape to....

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Paul Boote]

' No putting the genie back in the lamp/ bottle, no returning to an all was well with Britain 1950s'..............

And that from a man endlessly waffling on about some weird fantasy world he lives in that is FIRMLY lodged in the past, as are the bizarre imaginary folk who people it...including the lovingly (feverishly?) described 'lady guides' who are obviously a product of whatever depths his personal demons drag him to at night

I should try living IN the world as it is now Paul, see how the real world suits you, before you accuse me of 'forever whining about how I feel it should be'. I have every right to an opinion, and to feel saddened by mans continuous folly...and you will certainly not stop me from expressing those rights or feelings, however abusive or sarcastic you may get.

Perhaps you should try coming down from those heady hights occasionally dear boy. Could be that if you did not see yourself as such a vastly superior being, condemned to spend his real life surrounded by mere mortals, or 'Wall to wall S4Brains' as you so condescendingly describe us...you would not have to invent another world to escape to....

Cheers, Dave.

Idiot. My little fantasy world holds a very telling mirror up to the endless troll-like stirrings, machinations, prejudices and all-round rabble-rousing of people like you, Dave Gauntlett. Tight lines.

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Just had a read through this thread . Clearly folks have different and passionetly held views but what we must ALL not forget is who is at the root of all these problems with Otters , seals , cormorants etc ?,It's us, MAN ,the great exploiter of the planets resources and meddler with nature . Creatures do what creatures do , they can't help that . Man ,the supposedly superior intelligent being continues to mess things up on a cataclysmic scale , lessons are not being learn't . As my old and wise grandad used to say '' Think on ''...

 

[David Gauntlett]

Idiot. My little fantasy world holds a very telling mirror up to the endless troll-like stirrings, machinations, prejudices and all-round rabble-rousing of people like you, Dave Gauntlett. Tight lines.

Oh dear Paul....as usual when the truth bites, you descended once again to name calling and baseless accusations.

The mere mention of the word 'otter' has you hurtling out of your kennel like some frenzied terrier, snapping and snarling at the heels of the hapless soul who dared utter the forbidden word, freakishly accusing them of everything from racial prejudice to a hatred of tax dodgers

If I were you Paul, I would get this 'telling mirror' you mention...stand in front of it, and say 'Mirror, mirror on the wall...who is the most deeply disturbed of all'....you may find it 'telling' you things you would rather not hear....

Cheers, Dave.

 

[David Gauntlett]

Just had a read through this thread . Clearly folks have different and passionetly held views but what we must ALL not forget is who is at the root of all these problems with Otters , seals , cormorants etc ?,It's us, MAN ,the great exploiter of the planets resources and meddler with nature . Creatures do what creatures do , they can't help that . Man ,the supposedly superior intelligent being continues to mess things up on a cataclysmic scale , lessons are not being learn't . As my old and wise grandad used to say '' Think on ''...

Spot on Mike.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Paul Boote]

Oh dear Paul....as usual when the truth bites, you descended once again to name calling and baseless accusations.

The mere mention of the word 'otter' has you hurtling out of your kennel like some frenzied terrier, snapping and snarling at the heels of the hapless soul who dared utter the forbidden word, freakishly accusing them of everything from racial prejudice to a hatred of tax dodgers

If I were you Paul, I would get this 'telling mirror' you mention...stand in front of it, and say 'Mirror, mirror on the wall...who is the most deeply disturbed of all'....you may find it 'telling' you things you would rather not hear....

Cheers, Dave.

Thank you very much for that, Dave. I still remember the pretty well nonsensical late-night private message you sent me here some months back - "Ramblings of an old man" - then the clearly half-deranged, in-public first posting by a no-name newbie on a fly site a few weeks later, a posting that fairly poo-ed all over me, which, several weeks later, was come back to, edited and deleted with an apology by the poster - "...ramblings of an old man".

Tight lines.

 

[Adrian Cole]

Oh dear Paul....as usual when the truth bites, you descended once again to name calling and baseless accusations.

The mere mention of the word 'otter' has you hurtling out of your kennel like some frenzied terrier, snapping and snarling at the heels of the hapless soul who dared utter the forbidden word, freakishly accusing them of everything from racial prejudice to a hatred of tax dodgers

If I were you Paul, I would get this 'telling mirror' you mention...stand in front of it, and say 'Mirror, mirror on the wall...who is the most deeply disturbed of all'....you may find it 'telling' you things you would rather not hear....

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Colin Gordon]

Dave, Paul and Adrian;
Touche!!

 

[David Gauntlett]

Thank you very much for that, Dave. I still remember the pretty well nonsensical late-night private message you sent me here some months back - "Ramblings of an old man" - then the clearly half-deranged, in-public first posting by a no-name newbie on a fly site a few weeks later, a posting that fairly poo-ed all over me, which, several weeks later, was come back to, edited and deleted with an apology by the poster - "...ramblings of an old man".

Tight lines.

No need to thank me Paul...you deserve every word. I see that once again you are crossing the line by openly referring to 'Private Messages'...the clue is in the title old bean, decent people honour that. I did indeed reach out, in an effort to calm the waters, rather than continue these angry exchanges on an open forum...rather pointless I admit, when one considers the recipient.

'Clearly half-deranged, in public posting by a no-name newby on a fly site' ??
Oh lordy, things are even worse than I feared. As far as my admittedly dodgy 'old mans' memory tells me, I have never posted ANYTHING on a 'fly site' in my entire life. I do gather from others that your rantings have seen you banned from at least one such site, but don't involve me in your unpleasant altercations elsewhere. You obviously feel a deep need to upset folk wherever you go, but that will hardly come as a surprise to anyone on this forum.

I rather think your term 'no-name' when referring to me rather gives the game away doesn't it? Gives us all yet another insight into your problems...tells us all we need to know in fact. The fact that a totally unknown, very ordinary person has the audacity to question the pontifications from on high of a person who very obviously sees himself as almost God like...has you almost beside yourself with rage. How sad.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Colin Gordon]

Laughed so much i nearly cried !!

Must say I'm a little disappointed with Paul, I thought he may of lasted a bit longer than mid-way through page 3 before getting drawn in.

Paul, you'll have to be careful not to burn your self out in these early exchanges, otter threads are more about endurance than a quick sprint...

 

[Neil Powney]

must say i'm a little disappointed with paul, i thought he may of lasted a bit longer than mid-way through page 3 before getting drawn in.:d:d

paul, you'll have to be careful not to burn your self out in these early exchanges, otter threads are more about endurance than a quick sprint...:d:d

 

[Paul Boote]

The Chairman on Monday

Subject: Pete Brown & Piblokto


I am reminded of the title of an album by this probably long-dead and certainly best forgotten 1960s psychedelic / just plain weird band: "Things May Come and Things May Go, But the Art School Dance Goes on Forever".

As with odd album titles, so with young Paul, I think you'll find (he quite exhausts me ... and our Lady Guides, from what I hear...).


As ever,

B.B.

 

[Joe Fletcher]

Just had a read through this thread . Clearly folks have different and passionetly held views but what we must ALL not forget is who is at the root of all these problems with Otters , seals , cormorants etc ?,It's us, MAN ,the great exploiter of the planets resources and meddler with nature . Creatures do what creatures do , they can't help that . Man ,the supposedly superior intelligent being continues to mess things up on a cataclysmic scale , lessons are not being learn't . As my old and wise grandad used to say '' Think on ''...

I agree with what you say Mike , Until man stops meddling with the balance of nature . Then we will continue to have problems .