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Otters and the Angling Trust.

L

Lee Fletcher

Senior Member
Dear All,

Mike Heylin chairman of the Angling Trust has gone on the offensive urging those affected by otter predation to use existing rules to combat the problem. Basically the Angling Trust backs a proposed plan that would enable "countryside managers" (who ever they are) and "fishery bosses" to "trap" and "remove" otters where they are causing a problem. Attributed to the Angling Times website Mike states; " “I’ve written to the EA, National Trust and Defra telling them that somebody in Government needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The situation is getting ever more serious,†He also states; "“A managed environment needs just that management not loose regulation and poor legislation backed up by woolly-headed thinking. There is no provision from Government to protect commercial enterprises, such as fish farms and fisheries, which were in existence long before Tony Blair’s promise to re-establish otters.

“I’ve said to the authorities that if the regulations do not allow or the control of otters, then they need to start getting those regulations changed. These are taxpayers being directly hurt at a commercial level by Government policy.â€

Mike was also keen to stress the need for fishery owners to do their bit by putting pressure on the Government itself.

Mike said “It’s simple, countryside managers need to apply for permission to control the problems on their land. Fishery bosses must apply for a licence to trap and remove otters where they are causing a problem. I urge them to do so as soon as possible.â€

So what do BFW members think about this Angling Trust campaign?

Do most BFW members know for example that there "IS" provision for this to take place???

Attributed to the Natural England website it states:

"Otters are currently increasing in number and distribution after a prolonged period of decline. They receive protection under both the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 (as amended) and the Conservation (Natural Habitats, &c.) Regulations 1994 (as amended). Otters and their resting places are fully protected, it is an offence to deliberately, capture, injure or kill them or to damage, destroy or obstruct their breeding or resting places. It is also an offence to disturb otters in their breeding or resting places.

There is, however, provision within the legislation to kill, take, disturb or possess otters or to use prohibited methods to kill or take under a licence in certain defined circumstances, if the issue cannot be resolved by any alternative means."


For those wanting reams of PDF based information on the legal aspects concerning the above go to the NE website.

In my opinion although legislation does exist via the Wildlife Management and Licensing Service, neither Natural England nor the government would touch this Angling Trust proposal with a barge pole. Government, well the one presently in power, will no doubt come to any otter predation dance hosted by the Angling Trust but would merely waffle in political speak like they do based solely around trying not to upset the "angling vote" so near to a general election. Whilst Mike on the other hand, knowing full well this government needs all the votes it can get in order to stay in power, has possibly purposely chosen this specific pre election period to highlight the predation problem so it gets a sympathetic hearing at least??? Or better still get the issue firmly on any future agenda when a new government is voted in?

Either way, no matter which government gets in after May, I have no doubt that not one single otter will be trapped or moved due to predation in the future. Otters are here to stay and the massive public majority support their reintroduction and that alone will form the status quo of government opinion over almost all issues relating to the otter.

Regards,

Lee.
 
Politics, politics (Party and Rural)...

For my own part I "look forward" to the day when our wives, girlfriends, children, nieces and nephews and all our non-Angler friends ask one, leading, unanswerable question: "So you say you love fish. And return them all unharmed. And love wildlife and the countryside. So why do put your name to people and stuff that kills otters? ("I hate you, Dad, you're nothing but ... but ... but a murderer!"). I also "look forward" to the time when I can no longer quietly fish on my tod without some dogwalker, rambler or family on an outing berating me about my new-found status as swivel-eyed otter-killer. I also "look forward" to being the target of an unprovoked physical attack by someone who formerly had believed anglers to be just poor, sad-sack loner, harmless eccentrics worthy of pity. Yes, I "look forward" to some very interesting times - for you, that is: I won't be fishing.
 
Cuddly animals always get public support.

A balanced approach to environmental management sounds entirely appropriate.

Nature is an absolute cruel ****er and we're just animals, part of nature too, cruel as we are.
 
Removals Van

I was slightly puzzled by the "trap and removal" plan. Removed to where? Some other place where there are no rivers and streams, no still waters? Notice reads; “For sale or to good home. Very naughty otter that ate prize fish needs good home, one where there are no watery places. New owner needs plentiful supply of fresh fish but please not wild fish as this would encourage naughty otter in old ways that got him/her into trouble in the first place".

All seems a bit odd? Otters balancing balls on their noses for herrings fed from a bucket? Where does one send a naughty otter once trapped? What about captive bred otters reared on cormorants and signal crayfish?

Regards,

Lee.
 
I know what you mean Paul, but would people regard anglers as murderers merely because some form of control was necessary with otters? I'm not sure shepherds are branded this way due to foxes needing control, or farmers where rabbits are concerned.After all, it is likely that with no control there will be very little food for otters so culling may be necessary for their own wellbeing just as much as for angling.
 
Last word from me on the new, otter-free BFW, otherwise the site will soon dissolve into endless bitter recrimination and otter chaos - the public is largely cool about culling foxes (at least, humanely), it recognizes that they need to disappear now and again; but otters..........

Now, I am a very able, non-professional (out of choice) verbal and written communicator and persuader of people, but know that if I were offered a cool, tax-free, brown-envelope million by someone tomorrow to win the public over to an "I'm cool about otters having to be culled occasionally" viewpoint, I'd say "Thanks, fellas, very kind of you and all that, but it has to be 'No' - I only take on projects that I believe I can execute successfully. You'd only be wasting your possibly unearned money..."

And with that, I fall silent about otters.
 
I don't think that we should shirk from the fight just because of public opinion, we are after all, defending our right to have fish available for our sport and all that it includes.

It is the same with the cormorant problem, we may lose the RSPB vote but what the hey, they have to accept that the environment is changing and that we are acting in the interest of the bigger picture. Empty rivers and lakes are no use to anybody.

If the bird watchers (and I am one of them) don't like it I am sure they can be won over, after all, otters do untold damage to bird stocks on and around waterways. We are actually working together on this one, they just haven't cottoned on to it yet.

As for the ramblers and those that claim to love the wildlife but never get around to actually seeing it - they will just have to live with it. Our fish are being decimated by too many predators and our rivers are under threat from many areas, let's not get squeamish, we have a just cause.
 
Lee Fletcher said:
I was slightly puzzled by the "trap and removal" plan. Removed to where? Some other place where there are no rivers and streams, no still waters? Notice reads; “For sale or to good home. Very naughty otter that ate prize fish needs good home, one where there are no watery places. New owner needs plentiful supply of fresh fish but please not wild fish as this would encourage naughty otter in old ways that got him/her into trouble in the first place".

All seems a bit odd? Otters balancing balls on their noses for herrings fed from a bucket? Where does one send a naughty otter once trapped? What about captive bred otters reared on cormorants and signal crayfish?

Regards,
Lee



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just as a matter of interest is that the ex carp angler lee fletcer who used to fish at denton reservoir in the early 90's?
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Catch them and put them where exactly????
In deep water.......??
 
This debate tends to be a bit circular, and this has all be said before. But to repeat my own point of view the problem, as I see it, with taking the fight to the politicians and the public alike is that it exposes a deep ambiguity about fishing itself which would soon be latched onto by the media. And the ambiguity is this: coarse anglers fish for pleasure, otters fish in order to survive. And as long as we put fish back to be caught repeatedly for fun, there is little or no chance of the media or the public siding with us against the interests of a cute, furry animal that hunts to feed, breed and survive. As a consequence of any trapping or culling, as Paul B was suggesting, anglers would be catapulted pretty quickly from being misunderstood, tolerated eccentrics who are left alone to get on with their curious hobby to being public enemy number one. I know many will disagree with this, but my instinct is to steer well clear of a fight with tarka.
 
Most of them will end up being run over on roads or railways, so this should help to balance the situation. The problem is some areas will be vastly more affected than others. Where the fishing suffers and businesses start to go bust, they have my sympathy for what it's worth.

I think in this day and age of equality and defending ones human rights to do whatever we damn well please, we have every right to defend angling against whatever threats we see fit. That's not to say we'll win, but if the majority feel it's a just cause, then that's what we should do. That's where the Angling Trust should come into it's own.

Personally I believe that illegal poaching poses a far greater risk than otters in many areas and that really makes my blood boil.
 
otters

The problem is otters have been re-intriduced into rivers where their main diet eels hardly excist especially on small rivers such as the river teme etc..I think the time will come when resposible fisherys etc will have the powers to cull the otter if they increase in numbers over a given stretch but this will all probably happen to late im affraid..The ouse is suffering terribly from otters and indeed the barbel have dissapeared either half eaten or buggerd off to another stretch which is otter free..FOR NOW..
 
Is any of the Ouse otter free?..... if it is that surprises me.

Angling is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't on the otter issue. As is the fish farming industry. In fact. licensing is just a nicety, as the number of otters being illegally culled must be petty high by now. Culling them may be illegal but not many people whose livelihoods are being affected by otters are going to sit back and watch it happen without fighting back...... and if the Government isn't going to listen, then people will take it into their own hands.
 
Craig Wood said:
The problem is otters have been re-intriduced into rivers where their main diet eels hardly excist especially on small rivers such as the river teme etc..I think the time will come when resposible fisherys etc will have the powers to cull the otter if they increase in numbers over a given stretch but this will all probably happen to late im affraid..The ouse is suffering terribly from otters and indeed the barbel have dissapeared either half eaten or buggerd off to another stretch which is otter free..FOR NOW..
Click to expand...
Otters have always been on the Teme, they never completely died out (and the eel is also returning in some numbers as the time spent removing them from hooks when fishing with meat this summer will testify). When they came near to extinction therir place was taken by mink, a non native species introduced "accidentally" by poor farming practises (not by so called animal rights people). The same sort of poor farming practise that led to signal crayfish and rainbow trout polluting rivers. Otters are now returning in numbers to the Teme and will hopefully displace the Mink. Mink may not take the larger fish but they do take many fry and they can cause bank damage...so I am glad to see the otters returning.
If farmers want to protect their stocks they should pay for this themselves and not require public money to do so.
Last year I questioned English Nature as to how many requests thay had received for licenses to trap or remove otters. The answer was none. So all these farmers making a fuss aren't actually bothering to even apply to do any control themselves just attempting to once again gain public money for their businesses. Commercial ponds whether designed for food production or supplying angling opportunities are farming businesses and I can't see why the tax payer should give them any more money. I am particular angry that anglers license fees are being diverted to otter control for commercial fisheries.
Otters are this years fad target to blame for problems on rivers. Removing natural predators to improve fishing is just not and never has been a sensible answer. On the Teme after we kill off the Otters do you want to follow up with a campaign to kill off the Pike? Or how about getting rid of the barbel that are "ruining" the trout and salmon fishing?
in the meantime the real problems on the Teme go ignored. The over extraction is having a serious effect on flows in the lower Teme. The river levels this summer and now in the winter at Bransford Bridge have been consistently below the seasonal average, whilst this hasn't been the case upstream at Ludlow. With the occasional day or so when they are massively above the seasonal norms. Pointing to considerable extraction from the river in the lower reaches. This is what is going to have a greater long term effect on a wonderful river...which for me is not just a place for anglers, but also a place for many wild animals..including otters...to live.
 
your quite right pete about water being taken from the teme and have some good points regarding otters..and yes i agree the otter it seems is being used as a scapegoat..i think its true to say some rivers will suffer more from otters than others due to the rivers size and fish stocks..im affraid otters are here to stay and we will just have to live with it..
 
Suppose it all comes down to your own gut feelings on wildlife the environment and conservation. For me I was brought up with farming and shooting and to be honest i never really enjoyed killing animals (even cormorants) for whatever the reason. The main reason I fish is the outdoors and enjoying the environment and catching a fish or two puts the icing on the cake of have a great day out.

We all fish and have different points of veiws and I do hope that the Angling Trust do not waste time and money on an issue that could possibly marginilise anglers more and detract from the real issues that affect our rivers. I feel they are being a bit over reactionary in their response on this, partly due to their need for support and this is not for the right reasons...and one way of getting it is to say they are going to fight on the otter issue. I'm the same as previously mentioned...commercial farmers should not be helped and if these farmers loose all these thousands of pounds worth of stock, more fool them really? clubs should be helped with fencing.

I'm a member of the AT and I go to the local consultative meetings....that would be a good starting point for them. Find out what the real issues are in the varying regions and see what help we really need at local levels. because I havent seen anything of them yet at a local level in my area.

Cheers
Jason
 
Hi men ,

Yes , we have had this before . What worrys me is that unless we all agree with one side of peoples views we seem to scared to even raise the subject .

Hatter
 
Graham Elliott said:
This excellent piece by well respected Dave Steuart will be of interest.

http://www.fishingmagic.com/features/opinion/otters-enchanting-killer.html

Graham
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That is good thanks. It makes the point that has always irked me most in that when you see a pic of a fish kill the otter has hardly eaten any of the fish. As the article says otters behave like cats and will kill for fun.

I hate cats having being mauled by one of the furry little devil on earth ****ers aged 2, for fun. I'm also allergic to them :mad:
 
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