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Otter PR machine in overdrive

Chris Guy said:
every one, to a man, would like to see them extinguished from our waters.
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Totally untrue, I would love to see an otter but never have in the wild, fishing all my local rivers 24 hours a day, surprises me really being as there are reportedly hundreds out there :D

Most anglers I know do not listen to the rubbish being pushed by the MINORITY about this devil mamal...........
 
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Chris Guy said:
I don't know one anger personally that enjoys seeing otters, every one, to a man, would like to see them extinguished from our waters.
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Anger, seems the right term here....rather than angler.
Personally I have always enjoyed seeing the odd otter over the years, as I have also enjoyed seeing many other forms of wildlife whilst angling. One of the joys of the pursuit for me and many others.
 
I have to admit I enjoyed watching an otter fish for the first time! It hadn't seen me so I managed to watch it for 20mins. It was at the same time a very disturbing experience, I know the fishing can only get worse as a result of it's re introduction. We pay enough for a fishing licence so why can't the ea put more effort into fish stockings (lots of eels for starters!)
 
Just a shame that 'ordinary' fisheries, ie on the Ouse, Wensum, Ivel, Windrush & others like them, don't have gun-toting estate wardens to keep the level of 'pests' down to a manageable level.
 
Just a shame that the above mentioned rivers aren't well enough managed to breed barbel now. Those who fish flowing stockponds, just like modern carpers, are quick to demand death to anything that threatens the artifice...
 
Don't we have enough gun toting morons with no respect for the law of the land in the towns at present without spreading them to the countryside as well?
I think it is a great insult to the many fine gamekeepers around to think that any but a very small minority would consider shooting anything they weren't legally entitled to shoot.
 
Chris Guy said:
Just a shame that 'ordinary' fisheries, ie on the Ouse, Wensum, Ivel, Windrush & others like them, don't have gun-toting estate wardens to keep the level of 'pests' down to a manageable level.
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With respect, I think you should read and mull over Paul's last post.
 
Paul, I thought the windrush would of held Barbel naturaly as a tributary of the Thames. And its a bit unfair to call the rivers flowing stock ponds. Carp are not indigenous to this country and maybe a few of the less obvious eastern flowing rivers held Barbel originaly.
dave
 
I don't normally reply to this type of thread, but would have to say the majority of anglers I know welcome seeing Otters-myself included, partly because I feel as though everything does not revolve around angling. Introducing Otters is on par with introducing Barbel to rivers-there is some affect somewhere on the foodchain, and not always for the best-but over time everything equals out. All of my local rivers do not have indigeonous stocks of Barbel, but Otters were natural to these systems. In my experience of walking along rivers twice a day and fishing them, I have come across 2 barbel that were taken by an Otter (or mink), around the same timescale I have probably come across 30 barbel dead due to poor treatment (granted probably not from anglers who use this site), on one day finding three fish dead on one of my local club stretches. Once we get our house in order, with fact not opinion, hopefully some perspective may come to this type of debate-personally I would welcome more debate on abstraction-the Teme is really suffering at the moment.

Cheers DT
 
David, you say barbel are not indigenous to your local rivers but where is the relevance of that point? Are carp, or any other fish for that matter, indigenous to gravel pits? Or resevoirs? It is misleading to say fish are not indigenous to this or that river system but otters are. Otters have the freedom of moving across land to decide where they want to live and one sighting would seem to class them as indigenous. Fish do not have the same freedom of movement and all that matters is that barbel are indigenous to the UK. What particular river they inhabit is irrelevant.
 
David Tainton said:
-personally I would welcome more debate on abstraction-the Teme is really suffering at the moment.

Cheers DT
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Discussion on the Teme and the abstraction is indeed here on this site.
 
Hi Alex,
The point about Barbel not being indigenous relates to the impact introducing an animal-the Barbel will have an effect somewhere in that ecosystem, something would have been affected- some of it positive, some negative. Fishing around Worcester I have benefited from Barbel being introduced. I suppose what I am trying to say it is the effect man has, which is often the most profound. As on a lot of threads, opinions are shared from different viewpoints-giving balance to a debate, I personally think some posts don,t give balance or they are very short term/reactive.
Pete thanks for the link.

Cheers DT.
 
Barbel are an indigenous species surely?

The fact they colonised the Eastern UK rivers as far back as the Ice Age should allow them UK status I would hope. The fact that Angling Times gave them a foothold in the Severn System was a controversial act I suppose, so perhaps the reintroduction of the Otter offers some sort of balance?
 
Neil Smart said:
Barbel are an indigenous species surely?

. The fact that Angling Times gave them a foothold in the Severn System was a controversial act I suppose,
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with salmon anglers in particular, as it remains in the Wye catchment. Many barbel anglers attitude to otters is very reminiscent of salmon anglers attitude to barbel.
 
It is not just barbel anglers who see the otter as danger to fish stocks. What about carp fishery owners and salmon anglers themselves? Angling in general has some people who are pleased with the return of otters, some who aren't and some who are indifferent. Obviously those whose livelihoods are adversley affected will be the least pleased.
 
Salmon (and trout and sea-trout anglers) care about otters? Not much, if at all. As I have long said (and Pete Marshall echoed above), some of them, on certain rivers, do care very greatly about barbel, however - to the point, I believe, that, if salmon began to return to the Wye in sufficient numbers to make the big money return and take up the old fishings, not only would barbel fishers no longer be given much of a look-in on the river (maybe in the winter months, but not on stretches that are occupied by spawning salmon) but also, very quickly and quietly, there would be far far fewer barbel...
 
Some memories - particularly those of salmon anglers - are very long. Scroll down to the bottom of this page - http://www.fly-fish-guide.net/knowledgebase/historical_characters/home.html - and check out Robert Pashley, the man who took over 10,000 salmon from the Wye in its heyday. I knew a man who whose father keepered beats of the Wye that Pashley fished in his and the river's pomp, accompanying his Dad to the river pretty well as soon as he could walk, later becoming a devastatingly successful non-Gentleman Wye salmon-fisher himself. He'll be dead now, as he was fifty or so when I, as a successful teenage and early twenties salmon-fisher, showed him my West Wales rivers over thirty-five years ago. So, check out the Wye's glory days and be aware that there are still a good few who want them back.
 
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Paul Boote said:
Salmon (and trout and sea-trout anglers) care about otters? Not much, if at all. As I have long said (and Pete Marshall echoed above), some of them, on certain rivers, do care very greatly about barbel, however - to the point, I believe, that, if salmon began to return to the Wye in sufficient numbers to make the big money return and take up the old fishings, not only would barbel fishers no longer be given much of a look-in on the river (maybe in the winter months, but not on stretches that are occupied by spawning salmon) but also, very quickly and quietly, there would be far far fewer barbel...
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I would guess, unfortunately, you are totally on the ball here Paul. Whilst I cast the occasional line for Salmon I am not blinded to the fact that the lack of Salmon spawning in the Wye (and for that matter, the Teme, the Vyrnwy and a few other rivers) has allowed a "tolerant" attitude to barbel by riparian owners who can no longer charge the money they would if larger runs of Salmon were present.

Barbel, like any fish, have a large appetite for salmon eggs and are capable of rooting up redds like no other fish. If they actual do cause as much damage as Salmon anglers think is a moot point (after all when the redds are full of eggs the water temperatures are usually too cool for that much activity from barbel and the best spawning grounds are high up the rivers where few barbel presently venture). However, much like the attitudes to otters, perception is everything and facts mustn't get in the way of blind prejudice, so if salmon runs returned in numbers along the Wye, you could certainly say goodbye to the cheap day ticket fisheries presently around, and bait fishing before October 15th.....not a chance.

Most of my Salmon fishing was usually up on the West Coast of Scotland, where there are lots of relatively cheap places to fish. Always loads of otters about and I never knew any anglers in that part of the world who were particularly anti - otter. Of course the fish farmers came, poisoned the rivers, destroyed the wild Salmon and had a much more negative attitude to otters (and seals) which raided their death cages regularly. Made me quite fond of the beasties.
 
Tribes

Dear All,

Reading through this thread and some of the comments made highlights one of the main reasons why angling is not a "unified" sport in this country. We are tribal being made up of various "tribes" so are often quite unable to see the other tribes points of view? Added to which, the tremendous changes that have taken place within our sport since the early sixties have driven us further into our tribal sects. This has always posed a danger if the general public ever decide to take a big stick to our sport.

I am pretty sure that if ever the general public had to decide whether it wanted to see otters along our rivers or anglers, some anglers I should add that all too often leave river banks strewn with their litter, the otter would win hands down!

The answer of course lies in projecting a unified voice over issues affecting our sport but before we can do that, we simply have to tear down the walls that divide us?

Politically I was around the political scene when certain dangers were being exposed surrounding the release of captive bred otters in certain areas. However, I am one of those anglers who would rather see otters along our rivers than not. Yes I love my fishing and it is part of my life but not above everything else and the reasons why I picked up a fishing rod in the first place. Angling is not just about catching fish, if it were, many amongst us would have packed it in years ago. Its about spending precious time within watery places being intoxicated by the experience. And otters are just as part of the watery landscape as a Kingfisher is darting past in a flash of cobalt blue. Indeed, our landscape would be a poorer place if the otter were to disappear.

Regards,

Lee.
 
Interesting this one . So the Salmon is in decline on the Wye ,the implication being that this may be due in part to upsurge in barbel numbers and their penchant for salmon eggs , so I presume that the salmon anglers see the barbel as public enemy number one rather than the otter ?. In turn many barbel anglers see the otter as the devil incarnate and yet the the barbel appear to be doing very well on the river , presumably this is down to the fact that the place is not over run with otters ? The point I am trying to make is that it appears that each special interest has it's own scapegoat but each argument in turn has a flaw .Don't the Wye otters eat salmon ? Do the Wye barbel only targer salmon eggs / redds ? . The Wye is full of chub , don't they eat the salmon eggs , surely should blame should be heaped on them ?
 
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