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Otter petition.

Done

Needs 10,000 signatures for Government to respond - there must be 10,000+ anglers
 
How will non-lethal means of control work? The petition mentions specific rivers, so if as an example you trap and remove Otters from the Bristol Avon and release them elsewhere, you are doing so in to an environment, where the UK Otter population is reaching its capacity. Other Otters will simply take over the vacated territory.

People really need to get over the reintroduction side of this too, as all the limited reintroductions did, was speed up a recolonization process, which was already well underway.

By the way, you can already get licencing to remove Otters from a fishery by non-lethal means, as I have a friend who is licensed to do so, following a training course he attended in Scotland last year. Only a handful of people in the UK are currently licensed to do so.

Also I'm not the worlds biggest Otter fan either, I'm just seeing this as a badly worded petition and I don't see what it will achieve?
 
I really don't see the difference between a farmer, small holder or landowner who has foxes taking lambs/chickens etc having the right to control them (cull). And a fish farmer, fishery owner, riparian rights holder or landowner being able to do the same with otters. I'm a big conservation and otter supporter, but numbers should be able to be controlled and culling is an appropriate and effective part of that. This would help protect other species including, ground nesting birds, water voles and fish populations. Otherwise as otters are an apex predator with no natural or managed control it will be a disaster for our waterways. I think the best option would be for licensed culling to be available as with cormorants.
 
IMHO the problem of man's negative impact on the natural environment including our rivers, is a very big and different issue and discussion. But the fact that otters kill other large animals, for example a 7lbs Barbel. Then only eats a small proportion of the killed animal and the next time it is hungry (or feels the natural inclination) it does the same, is a specific, real and present problem. Because as it currently stands there is nothing to prevent otters decimating individual stretches or rivers.
 
I've signed, in order to help bring the issue into the wider political sphere, but it is a bit of a shame that such a short text hasn't been proof-read for the two punctuation errors it contains (where what should be separate sentences are joined by commas). Looks bad on something that needs to appear to be professional and based on accurate science in order to be taken seriously.
 
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Steve Roffey said:
Otters are NOT the problem, the reason so many rivers are in decline is down to the adverse effect that we (human beings) have had and continue to have on the environment. Removal of upland woodland, draining of marshes, concreting over flood plains, the list is endless, the species that needs culling is us!
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They may not be THE problem, but they're damn well part of it ...IMHO.
 
As above, angling should get behind this to highlight the fact they can see problems caused by otters in various forms and at various locations, (not necessarily their own waters, prime example being all the fenced fisheries, if that does not admit to a problem what does?) nothing is going to be perfectly worded. (The petition also only allows for a certain amount of characters). It`s almost like, ask yourself why should I sign it? and then why shouldn`t I? It is there to raise awareness and prompt more research and study, It`s better to be a part of bringing this about than not...I feel.
 
Steve Roffey said:
Otters are NOT the problem, the reason so many rivers are in decline is down to the adverse effect that we (human beings) have had and continue to have on the environment. Removal of upland woodland, draining of marshes, concreting over flood plains, the list is endless, the species that needs culling is us!
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Agree Steve.How many anglers got up this morning flushed all sorts down the loo,sprayed deicer on the car then washed their hands in the on suite piped into a top water drain and never even stopped to think about what they are doing to the environment Otters where here before us but the rivers had more fish until we developed the country side.
We have fences and systems n place to protect commercial operations let' leave nature to it and tidy our act up.
 
All very well, but this is the umpteenth otter petition started (they've all been badly worded!) and I don't think it's any secret that a large number of anglers blame them for the demise of a lot of waters and want their numbers controlled.
Awareness is well and truly out there.
Nothing will be done as most evidence is ad hoc and otters are, at best, the flogging of an already dead horse in a lot of cases.
 
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Some on here are saying otters are not the problem.. So can you guys tell all those clubs and fisheries where their carp stocks have been decimated, that otters are not the problem, it's us.
 
It must be remembered.....there are only 300 characters allowed for the title and reason of the petition...... the idea is what has to be included...... the how can be discussed up to and including at any meeting with government. There is a potential wealth of ideas/ processes that could be employed under the banner " non lethal control". That strap line was used to encourage those that see that control measures are needed and those people that do not like the idea of a cull. Personally I would have little concern over a measured cull but that is unlikely to go down with the general public who, as yet, do not know or want to know about the mess the aquatic ecosystem is in.
 
It is a mess alright, controlling otter numbers is just papering over the cracks. Seeing as it's highly unlikely that it's ever going to happen, surely efforts would be better redirected at the more pressing issues like pesticide pollution, abstraction etc etc.
Instead folk seem obsessed with otters, as if getting rid of them would be some kind of silver bullet.
 
I agree Rhys. There are lobbyists much bigger in stature asking for some of the above problems to be eradicated, and just like the very air we breathe, nothing is being done about it. The otter is there to champion a healthy sustainable environment, which in actual fact we do not have anyway, the petition may just get those things looked at...
 
As Neil rightly points out, there fishery owners already have the right to apply for a ‘class-licence’ to remove Otters from a fenced fishery by non-lethal means so it’s a little odd that the petition makes explicit reference to commercial fisheries and fish farms....

I would love someone to explain how the same concept could be applied to rivers? If that is indeed what is being suggested. I can’t envisage a credible scenario whereby a highly mobile, territorial aquatic mammal could be ‘controlled’ using trap and release methods - it would be like trying to drain the English channel with an egg-cup. So what other non-lethal controls in the petition alluding to...sterilisation perhaps? If so how would that work? Diversionary feeding maybe?

Can anyone point me to some empirical evidence that otters are having a negative impact at a population level on other riparian wildlife? There are studies which indicate that otters are beneficial to water voles (at a population level) because of the way they impact upon mink, and the BTO bird survey data doesn’t appear to flag anything up of statistical significance so far as breeding wetlands birds are concerned. I’ve heard claims from some anglers about otters predation having a serious impact of bitterns and swans - but surveys clearly show both species are thriving.
 
Rich Frampton said:
It must be remembered.....there are only 300 characters allowed for the title and reason of the petition...... the idea is what has to be included...... the how can be discussed up to and including at any meeting with government. There is a potential wealth of ideas/ processes that could be employed under the banner " non lethal control". That strap line was used to encourage those that see that control measures are needed and those people that do not like the idea of a cull. Personally I would have little concern over a measured cull but that is unlikely to go down with the general public who, as yet, do not know or want to know about the mess the aquatic ecosystem is in.
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Can you outline some of these ideas and processes please Rich?
 
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