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Otter lover gets her views across

If the Otter had not been nearly wiped out, do we think that certain rivers that have done huge Barbel in big numbers would still have happened?..:rolleyes:
I was listening to a radio show and they were talking about Otters particually in the Norfolk area where the Otter trust are based. One chap whos been fishing the wensum and other places for over 50 years had something very interesting to say. He said that there were already Otters present before they released more, he said that just because people had not seen them for years they thought they werent there and that includes the EA and Otter Trust so hey ho lets overkill with the release program because many wont survive...WRONG...I think that goes for most other rivers also..Its been one big public relations excercise thats gone very very wrong, due mainly to very serious underlying problems that have been swept under the carpet for many years and are now starting to come to fruit im afraid.
Please dont be fooled into thinking its all down to Otters why some rivers are failing because its not, the main culprits are big organisations with share holders who want a return on their investment at ANY Cost..
If you think things are bad now on our rivers wait and see what there like in the next 10years because you wont even recognise many rivers..
 
failing barbel numbers are clearly not down to otters alone, i don't think anyone could believe that.
 
David Hall said:
failing barbel numbers are clearly not down to otters alone, i don't think anyone could believe that.
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Maybe not Dave, but for her to suggest they are not in any way part of the problem, is rubbish. As has been pointed out, a lot depends on the size of the river. The Windrush and Cherwell, both small rivers, have declined rapidly since the appearance of otters. I don' think the Ouse has done too well either. Anyone who thinks this is not otter related or that the otter merely provided the straw that broke the camels back probably wasn't an angler on these particular rivers.

The woman who wrote this article attempts to portray a rose tinted view of things from the otters standpoint alone. No surprise there really, the EA are no better but for her to suggest that our rivers have never been in better shape shows just how ignorant and ill-informed she really is. That is not to say she is likely accept otters are partly responsible; however, merely to try and convince us how wonderful our rivers are shows a lack of research and realisation that many factors have contributed to render her statement absurd at best and downright stupid at worst.
 
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Anglers will never beat the Otter PR machine, the public love seeing them at home on their TV..
The public want to hear nice stories about Tarka AND ARE NOT INTERESTED in people who catch fish to photograph, admire and then put back into the water..Most dont understand why we do it..
Of coarse i agree they are looking through rose tinted glasses just like the lady from the Otter trust..
The problem we have is our rivers are no where near the EU standards and would probably of got worse over some years before we Anglers noticed a decline but with reintroducing Otters it has probably sped things up as we are now noticing that some rivers have really lost alot of fish stocks, thats just my opinon. I cant help but think if our rivers were as they should be we Anglers would probably have no need to get upset about Otters and would probably enjoy seeing them.
The biggest problem by far is Water Abstraction for a ever growing population which obviously affects current flow which inturn affects spawning grounds etc..
It would come as no surprise if Otters once again were in trouble in the coming years..
 
Let's not forget Cormorants, the black death, they are certainly contributing to a decline of fish stocks on both still and flowing waters, daily fish requirements have increased over the last ten years, in line with the swell in numbers, from circa 2000lbs to circa 30,000 lbs of fish per day just to survive, you can double that if they are hungry...........

I hope everyone on here has actively got behind the Angling Trust Cormorant Campaign........
 
I've never fished the Windrush or the Cherwell and tbh couldn't find them on a map but I have fished the Ouse several times and what I saw was a river in serious decline with a small population of big old fish and nothing to come through when they had gone.
That is not a healthy environment and it is obvious that many of the year classes were missing.
If you compare it to the Dove, which I also fish and also has a population of otters, you will find the Dove has a decent flow, a healthy fish population with all year classes represented and a diverse species list.
The main problem with Southern rivers imo is abstraction, and the fact that any flow they might have is made up of treated effluent. They are down to their bones and there is not enough flow to clean the gravel beds where the barbel spawn.
This country is at saturation point as far as population is concerned and the fact that a few rivers can not withstand the extra pressure put on them by the re-introduction of an apex predator should be a warning sign to us all that our lifestyle is unsustainable.
 
Adrian Williams said:
I've never fished the Windrush or the Cherwell and tbh couldn't find them on a map but I have fished the Ouse several times and what I saw was a river in serious decline with a small population of big old fish and nothing to come through when they had gone.
That is not a healthy environment and it is obvious that many of the year classes were missing.
If you compare it to the Dove, which I also fish and also has a population of otters, you will find the Dove has a decent flow, a healthy fish population with all year classes represented and a diverse species list.
The main problem with Southern rivers imo is abstraction, and the fact that any flow they might have is made up of treated effluent. They are down to their bones and there is not enough flow to clean the gravel beds where the barbel spawn.
This country is at saturation point as far as population is concerned and the fact that a few rivers can not withstand the extra pressure put on them by the re-introduction of an apex predator should be a warning sign to us all that our lifestyle is unsustainable.
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No Adrian, you've got it all wrong, we need lots more houses, especially in the South, then all the pi** emanating from them will fill up the rivers. It's quite simple really
 
Adrian Williams said:
I've never fished the Windrush or the Cherwell and tbh couldn't find them on a map but I have fished the Ouse several times and what I saw was a river in serious decline with a small population of big old fish and nothing to come through when they had gone.
That is not a healthy environment and it is obvious that many of the year classes were missing.
If you compare it to the Dove, which I also fish and also has a population of otters, you will find the Dove has a decent flow, a healthy fish population with all year classes represented and a diverse species list.
The main problem with Southern rivers imo is abstraction, and the fact that any flow they might have is made up of treated effluent. They are down to their bones and there is not enough flow to clean the gravel beds where the barbel spawn.
This country is at saturation point as far as population is concerned and the fact that a few rivers can not withstand the extra pressure put on them by the re-introduction of an apex predator should be a warning sign to us all that our lifestyle is unsustainable.
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Ade, mankind have been ignoring warning signs since history began. The problem is, they sink out of sight under the weight of the $ and £ signs that big business and politicians find so very much more attractive. It has always been so, and undoubtedly will continue to be so. I really don't want to think about the the bigger picture any more...the legacy we are leaving for our children's children is so depressing it is overwhelming. Getting peesed off with a bunch of interfering a-holes that have accelerated the demise of my favourite hobby in order to make themselves feel better is all I can cope with at the moment :p

Cheers, Dave.
 
I think ranting about otters is becoming a favourite hobby for you lot!
What's that they say about repetition and dullest minds?
 
Rhys Perry said:
I think ranting about otters is becoming a favourite hobby for you lot!
What's that they say about repetition and dullest minds?
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I didn't know otters were saying this. What else have you heard them say? Was Dr Johnson an otter? Jesus, I am really worried about them now. They could be responsible for more than we thought- global warming, tartar, Katie Price?
 
couple of extracts from an official release by the Natural England etc.

"Impacts on Fish Stocks
Eurasian otters eat a range of fish species, but generally they take whatever is most abundant. Studies reveal that on average the fish they take are less than 300mm length; although very large fish can be taken, their choice of fish prey generally reflects what is available in the environment around them.
For a variety of reasons fish populations in some river and still water fisheries have come to be dominated by large individuals. Large fish may be more vulnerable to predation, and their loss will be more noticeable.

However, it is clear that not all fisheries are being adversely affected by otters. Evidence gathered so far indicates that specimen barbel and chub populations have been hit hardest in smaller rivers, particularly where stocks are dominated by older fish, but rivers in the north and west, where otters have always been present, appear to be less affected."

Sadly i fish a small river that has (had?) big fish

"An otter will occupy a ‘home range’, which on fresh waters usually includes a stretch of river as well as associated tributary streams, ditches, ponds, lakes and woodland. The size of a home range depends largely on the availability of food and shelter, and the presence of neighbouring otters. On rivers, a male’s home range may be up to 40km or more of watercourse and associated areas; females have smaller ranges (roughly half the size) and favour quieter locations for breeding, such as tributary streams."

i think the density might be somewhat higher in many areas.

"Direct counting of otters is impossible due to their mobility, often secretive behaviour and largely nocturnal habit. Otter surveys are therefore based simply on presence and absence of otters as shown by field signs such as spraints (faeces) and footprints. It is not possible to use these data to estimate numbers, given the flexibility in the size of otter territories and the inability to distinguish between individuals using field signs. While the distribution and frequency of field signs is used as an indicator of the health of the population locally, any estimate of numbers would be highly speculative. Nevertheless, it is likely that there are several thousand otters present in England today."

Great an apex predator, don't know how many and no way of counting.

This as i say is part of the official relaese entitled " Otter - Facts" This "official" view would seem to contradict at least some of her claims.

rob
 
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Adrian Williams said:
I've never fished the Windrush or the Cherwell and tbh couldn't find them on a map but I have fished the Ouse several times and what I saw was a river in serious decline with a small population of big old fish and nothing to come through when they had gone.
That is not a healthy environment and it is obvious that many of the year classes were missing.
If you compare it to the Dove, which I also fish and also has a population of otters, you will find the Dove has a decent flow, a healthy fish population with all year classes represented and a diverse species list.
The main problem with Southern rivers imo is abstraction, and the fact that any flow they might have is made up of treated effluent. They are down to their bones and there is not enough flow to clean the gravel beds where the barbel spawn.
This country is at saturation point as far as population is concerned and the fact that a few rivers can not withstand the extra pressure put on them by the re-introduction of an apex predator should be a warning sign to us all that our lifestyle is unsustainable.
Click to expand...

This was not the case with the Windrush, it had a good head of barbel in the very small range that were visible from the bank. In fact in last years CAT, John Everard did a feature on the Upper Thames barbel and tributary rivers and he cites counting 29 small barbel under a tree. That would suggest they were breeding successfully. Of course, lack of flow and pollution etc will have a very negative effect on spawning but the most certain method to stop barbel spawning is to lose the adult fish who actually spawn!
 
Rhys Perry said:
Be afraid, be very afraid.

Dawning of the Sea Otters (Season 10, Episode 12) - Video Clips - South Park Studios
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I tried to warn you Rhys, god knows I tried....and now the awful truth is revealed. Possibly the most unforgivable thing about otters, if Howard is right, is that they are responsible for inflicting Katie Price upon us. I have always been suspicious of these murderous little varmints, and know their sickening crimes against mankind are being revealed in ever increasing numbers. The only thing that puzzles me about this latest revelation is a bit I read the other day which mentioned that you require a visa to enter Jordan. As far as I was aware, anything in trousers gains free entry. cough....

:p

Cheers, Dave.
 
Hi all, new on here but had an annoying experience just last night... after 2 hours of fishing and building up a swim for the twilight hour after the illusive River Culm Barbel I got a tad excited when what looked like some better fish moving in on the feed only to be totally shocked when an otter popped up its head right in the spot where I had been plopping my feed ! Needless to say I packed up and went home ... back to the dawing board then.
 
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