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Minister Gives Green Light to Review of Cormorant Locensing

As you say Craig all of there natural food in the sea has gone . So what choice have they got . But to move inland .
In Cheltenham where I live for many years now they have had problems with sea gulls .They have talked about culling for years and nothing gets done .
I can only assume they have moved so far inland due to a lack of fish . So until man stops plundering the sea , Then the problem will continue and get worse .

This is not an universally adopted argument. The cormorants' prey is not the same fish that commercial operators abstract. I think that the cormorants have moved inland to sites of easy pickings. Not their fault, they do what comes naturally, but control is necessary. I've seen two trout lakes completely cleared of fish in a very short space of time. The owner lived remotely from the lakes and had no idea they were being plundered.
 
Jim im completely in agreement with you regarding culling them..But as for they have moved for easier pickings im not quite sure..Their main diet was sand eels which are being harvested at alarming rates for a variety of reasons. What Paul has wrote is completely right, this problem was in the making many years ago and nothing was done simply because the commercial fishing industry would have been financially affected, which is now happening anyway due to many years of over fishing. I think it was Paul who wrote some time ago about a mate of his who used to be a commercial fisherman and had now packed it up due to too many doing it and too many fly by night cowboys who want to make fast money with no regard for the damage being done..Im affraid in this day and age this is a common problem and no one cares untill the damage is already done..
 
Sorry guys, The blame for the problem falls with man interfering with the balance of nature . I am not a cormorant lover and yes I agree some thing has to be done . Over the years man has interfered with nature . Their was a program on Channel 4 a while ago about fish and fish stocks in the sea . The amount of fish that were netted and thrown back in to the sea dead was unbelievable .
The idiots who released mink back in to the wild . Dare I say the OTTER word . They were released with no consultation and no reguard to the impact they would have on their enviroment and to the fish stocks .
I am no expert on the subject . All I know is that a stretch of the W/avon that I have fished for many years the chub and Barbel have all but disappeared .
As people have already said some thing has to be done about the cormorant problem . My only concern would be what the public reaction would be to it .
I remember years ago the problems we anglers had with lead shot and swans .After we have culled a few Cormorants . We can then start on the the Otters :D We are damned if we do and damned if we dont :(
 
Lots of people shoot lots of birds every day, game birds, pigeons, crows, ducks, etc..... and I don't see any public outcry to be honest, not exactly sure there would be any regarding cormorants..........

As Martin said, we need to record numbers and photograph in order to build a case for the prosecution, what happens after that we have no control over.

Personally I have absolutely no idea why there are loads of cormorants on inland waters ravaging stocks but I do not they need to be controlled so I will gather as much evidence as I can, I hope as well as discussining the whys and wherefores at length on here, the rest of you will too...........
 
Sorry guys, The blame for the problem falls with man interfering with the balance of nature . I am not a cormorant lover and yes I agree some thing has to be done . Over the years man has interfered with nature . Their was a program on Channel 4 a while ago about fish and fish stocks in the sea . The amount of fish that were netted and thrown back in to the sea dead was unbelievable .
The idiots who released mink back in to the wild . Dare I say the OTTER word . They were released with no consultation and no reguard to the impact they would have on their enviroment and to the fish stocks .
I am no expert on the subject . All I know is that a stretch of the W/avon that I have fished for many years the chub and Barbel have all but disappeared .
As people have already said some thing has to be done about the cormorant problem . My only concern would be what the public reaction would be to it .
I remember years ago the problems we anglers had with lead shot and swans .After we have culled a few Cormorants . We can then start on the the Otters :D We are damned if we do and damned if we dont :(


Ah. Cormorants we can probably swing, but otters...

End of all public goodwill towards Anglers and Angling. Up there with beating up the old Queen Mother or our present Queen: well out of order.
 
Jim im completely in agreement with you regarding culling them..But as for they have moved for easier pickings im not quite sure..Their main diet was sand eels which are being harvested at alarming rates for a variety of reasons. What Paul has wrote is completely right, this problem was in the making many years ago and nothing was done simply because the commercial fishing industry would have been financially affected, which is now happening anyway due to many years of over fishing. I think it was Paul who wrote some time ago about a mate of his who used to be a commercial fisherman and had now packed it up due to too many doing it and too many fly by night cowboys who want to make fast money with no regard for the damage being done..Im affraid in this day and age this is a common problem and no one cares untill the damage is already done..

Hi Craig, are you sure that sand eels are the cormorants' main diet by choice? The reason I raise this is that they would need a heck a lot of sand eels to survive when, say, a single pound and a half fish would do the job. Support may be forthcoming for culling on the basis that the bird is a most unattractive creature as opposed to the cuddliness of otters.
 
Food for thought, Paul. I wonder what gun was used to deter the cormorants, shotgun or .22 rifle. The problem with clay pigeon types they use shotguns and I'm not sure if you can get close enough to nail them with this type of weapon. A .22 rifle has more risks associated with it. The point is, 40 years ago, shooting restrictions were more more lax than they are currently. I hear that deadbait fisherman unfortunately catch the odd cormorant. Let's hope that this is not a widespread practice.

As someone who currently shoots cormorants under licence I should point out that you are only allowed to use a shotgun. Rifles of all calibre are expressly prohibited under the terms of the licence.
 
Cormorants and goosander have decimated the silver fish population of the Severn around Shrewsbury, there has been a massive decline in numbers over the last 10 years. It's not unusual to see groups of up to 40 goosander systematically working a stretch, they probably do more long-term damage than cormorants as they tend to take the juvenile fish. Fishing maggot on the river in summer used to be almost impossible due to the numbers of minnows and small silvers, these days you're lucky to get a bite!
 
As someone who currently shoots cormorants under licence I should point out that you are only allowed to use a shotgun. Rifles of all calibre are expressly prohibited under the terms of the licence.

Thanks, Nigel. The reason that I raised the question is that they seem to be very wiley birds and I would have thought that getting close enough to them to use a shotgun would be difficult. Keep up the good work. As a matter of interest, why are rifles prohibited? Is it there potential range?
 
Cormorants and goosander have decimated the silver fish population of the Severn around Shrewsbury, there has been a massive decline in numbers over the last 10 years. It's not unusual to see groups of up to 40 goosander systematically working a stretch, they probably do more long-term damage than cormorants as they tend to take the juvenile fish. Fishing maggot on the river in summer used to be almost impossible due to the numbers of minnows and small silvers, these days you're lucky to get a bite!


Which is odd, because every time we have an 'Otter' thread, where people claim that otters have, or will, empty their waters of fish...we are told it is not possible. We are told that nature makes predator/prey relationships self limiting, that the numbers of predators rises and falls with the numbers of prey animals available. While this argument sounds very convincing, it doesn't really explain the ever increasing number of cases recently where predators HAVE effectively emptied a water of fish, does it?

The number of rivers where the scenario Steve describes has come about due to the increased predation by cormorants, goosanders etc, and recently by mink and otters also, is absolutely staggering. The 'self limiting' theorists usually claim that it is not really the predators that are responsible, that pollution, over abstraction etc., etc., are to blame. While this may very well be true sometimes, at least to a certain extent, on some of of our rivers....it certainly doesn't explain the total 'wipe-outs' that have occurred on perfectly healthy, enclosed lakes or commercial waters. On these waters it can be proved that NO pollution of any sort was present, either before or after the event (and the abstraction point obviously does not apply) The fact is that predators moved in, were seen attacking/killing/eating the healthy fish stocks, untill eventually...the time scale being dependent on the size of the water and/or the numbers of predators present, it was eventually declared virtually devoid of fish....and THEN the predators moved on :rolleyes:

It really doesn't require a Sherlock Holmes to work out that for some reason, the 'Nature is self limiting' thing no longer applies on our waters (or at least to individual waters)...if indeed it ever did. The old 'fox in a chicken run' story always did throw a certain amount of doubt onto the infallibility of that theory anyway :D

It goes without saying that pollution, and all the other man made ills that assault our waters, are the MAJOR cause of most of our problems. However, in my opinion, the predator factor has now become a critical additional factor. Whether or not mans actions has once again bought about this situation...and whether or not pollution etc., has made our fish stocks more vulnerable to the effects of predation....is a mute point. The point I am trying to make is that while the fight against the old enemies of pollution etc., must obviously carry on, the issue of what to do about the huge problem of increased predation should NOT be swept under the carpet, by denying it's very existence.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Agreed, Dave, but, being only human, we have to have enemies without and within to blame the consequences of our own destructive lifestyles on. Remove every predator and unwanted alien tomorrow, and we'd still be stuck with iffy farming practices, unstainable water use and treatment, "like yesterday" expectations, planes, trains and automobiles............
 
While on the subject of Alien species . One that has not been mentioned yet are Zander . Is it not true that over the years where they were introduced illegally that they have decimated fish stocks and is it all so true that if you catch one you are supposed not to return it .
 
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Agreed, Dave, but, being only human, we have to have enemies without and within to blame the consequences of our own destructive lifestyles on. Remove every predator and unwanted alien tomorrow, and we'd still be stuck with iffy farming practices, unstainable water use and treatment, "like yesterday" expectations, planes, trains and automobiles............

I know Paul, you are of course absolutely right...there is no denying that we are strange, self defeating, sad old bunch in general. However, as you once said in reply to my comments regarding the over use of fishmeals..."We must at least try".

Cheers, Dave.
 
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