Meal Worm/Linseed

[Chris Bracey]

Just looking on the Haiths website - given the discussion about Robin Red on an earlier thread - saw reference to Meal worm/Meal Worm Crumble - has anyone every tried it - meal worm as a hookbait maybe or added either the groundbait - if so was it worth the extra expense - did you use it direct or mixed with other groundbait.??

Other thing i saw on there was their own crushed hemp - seem to suggest that it is a better quality than the crushed stuff at tackle shops because Haiths leave more of the natural oils in - again has any one tried it?

Finally, hemp has only half of the oil content of linseed (Flax) - which itself is 40% oil - has anyone every ground linseed flax to add to groundbait etc.

Please bear in mind i have never really experimented with these types of mix before - if linseed (flax) is not good or even dangerous for the fish then please tell me why.

TIA

Chris

 

[Patrick Leigh]

Hi,
I've been using Mealworm, dried and whole in boilies and groundbait mixes for well over 18 months now in testing and development of the new Pallatrax Naturals range of baits and whilst I can not (who can) comment on the singular effect of dried mealwoms as a single source as they are part of a balanced mix I have had some good fish on the Giant Mealworm bugs and as a constiuent part of the boilies and paste for the 'Multiworm'.. which is proving itself very effective for carp, tench, bream and barbel... would say give it a go (from wherever you get it)...

As for Linseed flax, don't grind the stuff yourself as it is classed as poisonous in flax form, below in italics taken from a medical paper and refers to animal tests.. keep linseed oil for your wood treatments to be safe

However, unripe flaxseed pods are believed to be poisonous and should not be eaten. Raw flaxseed or flaxseed plant may increase blood levels of cyanide, a toxic chemical (this effect has not been reported when flaxseed supplements are taken at recommended doses). Do not apply flaxseed or flaxseed oil to open wounds or broken skin.


Based on animal studies, overdose of flaxseed may cause shortness of breath, rapid breathing, weakness, or difficulty walking, and may cause seizures or paralysis. Theoretically, flaxseed ( not flaxseed oil) may increase the risk of cell damage from a reaction called oxidative stress. Studies report conflicting results in this area. Based on one study, flaxseed or flaxseed oil taken by mouth may cause mania or hypomania in people with bipolar disorder. In theory, the laxative effects of flaxseed ( not flaxseed oil) may cause diarrhea, increased number of bowel movements, and abdominal discomfort. Laxative effects are reported in several studies of people taking flaxseed or omega-3 acids. People with diarrhea, irritable bowel syndrome, diverticulitis, or inflammatory bowel disease (Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis) should avoid flaxseed due to its possible laxative effects. Nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain are reported in two individuals shortly after taking flaxseed products by mouth; these reactions may have been caused by allergy.


Large amounts of flaxseed by mouth may cause the intestines to stop moving (ileus). People with narrowing of the esophagus or intestine, ileus, or bowel obstruction should avoid flaxseed ( not flaxseed oil). Individuals with high blood triglycerides should avoid flaxseed and flaxseed oil due to unclear effects on triglyceride levels in animal research. People with diabetes should use caution if taking flaxseed products by mouth, as the omega-3 fatty acids in flaxseed and flaxseed oil may increase blood sugar levels.

 

[David Gauntlett]

For what it's worth......

My good lady bought some dried meal worms last winter (garden centre wild bird food section, probably from Haiths) They are 15< 25mm long, 3mm dia., and a fawny, honey-ish colour...and they smell quite pleasant, in a meal wormy sort of way

I saw the packet in the shed a couple of weeks back, had a peek at them. They looked and smelled just the same...in fact they seemed unchanged from the day I opened the packet....so I put some out on a tiny metal bird table that she had also bought

I looked at them today, and they STILL look exactly the same, and despite living in a rural area (with lots of birds of all types, including ALL the types the packet blurb tells me PARTICULARLY like these things).....they have not been touched...not ONE of them has gone awol or been eaten And I dread to think what preservatives may have been used to keep them unchanged, even when out in the elements

Ok, birds are not fish...but it does make you wonder, doesn't it?

Cheers, Dave.

 

[David Hall]

i put some maggots out for the birds and they weren't touched either, which i found strange and they were white.
they prefer chips....lol

 

[Martin Stevens]

Birds don't tend to visit the garden to feed as often after rearing their young. Every year I see the same thing in mine. I believe it is during the moult they tend not to be as active so that could be the issue.

I buy live mealworms every spring from wiggly wigglers, to give the nesting birds a helping hand. Even these were ignored first day out but once they were on them they disappeared in no time.

I have been thinking of giving these and waxworms a try for a while now, especially for perch. Wiggly wigglers do both live in lots of pack sizes and the delivery is free if you only buy live bird food

cheers
m

 

[David Gauntlett]

The birds are still visiting my garden regularly. There are a pair of blackbirds that probe everthing in the garden, scattering bark mulch all over my lawn rolleyes, starlings, sparrows, robins, wrens, tits, finches...you name it, they are there....but they don't touch my dried meal worms

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Mark Gaskell]

worms

My lizard wont eat dried mealworms but loves live ones.

 

[Ian Crook]

And I dread to think what preservatives may have been used to keep them unchanged, even when out in the elements

Ok, birds are not fish...but it does make you wonder, doesn't it?

Cheers, Dave.

Dave, surely the term "dried" would indicate they don't need a preservative??

 

[David Gauntlett]

Dave, surely the term "dried" would indicate they don't need a preservative??

You would think so, wouldn't you? However, the clue to my meaning is in the phrase 'even when out in the elements'. These things have been out there in rain, sun , more rain, more sun...and so on, for ages....and they DON'T change

Now THAT means preservatives!

I have just been and grabbed the packet to have a good look, and it seems I may be wrong about these being Haiths, because they are labeled as 'Caperns' (may still be sourced from Haiths...but who knows?).

The pack reads 'Dried meal worms are packed full of protein. Simply sprinkle on tables, the ground or under bushes. Birds will love them exactly as they are, but you can also soak them in warm water for a couple of minutes if you want to make them even juicier' considering they are as dry as tinder, that is quite a statement .

It also states that 'Regular feeding will ensure that you attract more birds and really bring life to your garden'....I guess it's just thay nobody told the birds in my garden

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Simon King]

My lizard wont eat dried mealworms but loves live ones.

Use them sparingly Mark, lizards get "fixated" very easily on mealworms and waxworms, then won't touch the stuff that's good for them (locusts, crickets etc).

Personally I can't see anything attractive or nutritional in "dried" grubs. It's the juices that provide the protein, vitamins and minerals, not the pure chitin of the exoskeleton.

A complete con imho, both for anglers and bird-feeders.

I have heard that waxworms may be good for tench, they're sweet as they are a parasite of the beehive, eating the honeycomb. They are raised on a honey and glycerin compound. They are also bouyant, thus an excellent natural "pop-up". Neither they nor mealworms live for more than about 10 minutes underwater though, they drown and stop moving quite quickly.

 

[Patrick Leigh]

.......Personally I can't see anything attractive or nutritional in "dried" grubs. It's the juices that provide the protein, vitamins and minerals, not the pure chitin of the exoskeleton.

A complete con imho, both for anglers and bird-feeders.

.....

Analysis of Dried Mealworms: Defra data too.. not the selling agent

Min Crude Protein 60%

Min Crude Fat 24%

Max Crude Fibre 4.5%

Max Moisture 8%

Max Ash 3.5%


Obviously, you're entitled to an opinion

 

[Simon King]

Analysis of Dried Mealworms: Defra data too.. not the selling agent

Min Crude Protein 60%

Min Crude Fat 24%

Max Crude Fibre 4.5%

Max Moisture 8%

Max Ash 3.5%


Obviously, you're entitled to an opinion

Quite.

Having worked with them for over 20 years and seen the terminally deleterious effects of a mealworm only diet on various lizards, I think that list (and its misleading disclaimers; max, min,) is perfectly self-explanatory.

That comment applies to both live and "dried".

 

[Patrick Leigh]

it perfectly explains that they are protein rich though

what the long term effects of feeding them to lizards as a sole foodsource has to do with the context of this forum is misleading in return (all be it in response to someone who mentioned lizards) when I'm discussing them as part of a fish bait

anyhoo, you'll see I previously refer to them as an additive among many and a component part of the Multiworm product.... 'Multi' is a clue in itself as to my preferred useage

 

[Simon King]

what the long term effects of feeding them to lizards as a sole foodsource has to do with the context of this forum is misleading in return (all be it in response to someone who mentioned lizards) when I'm discussing them as part of a fish bait

You got it. And also the comments regarding their use as dried bird food. And their use as a sole hook bait.
Brought up by other posters and also the original question.

Considering no-one's responded to your first post comments, you're getting a little defensive? :confused:

As an additive to HNV bait, I have no problem with them in any form.

 

[Graham Elliott]

Has anyone got the same information on dried maggots?

 

[Patrick Leigh]

Here you go Graham,

varies from sources between:

49.5% - 59% protein
12.5% - 15% Fat
11.6% - 13% Moisture
8% - 11& ash

contain also 17 amino acids...

This is good stuff too