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Long float rods for big chub

Richard Isaacs said:
Ive only been trotting specifically for barbel the last few years Ian because the Trent realistically is the closest suitable place for me to do it. Down here you’ve got very low stock big fish waters round here that ain’t anywhere near what they once were. We’ve got the upper lea and I’ll try that out this year for the first time.

So in reality I’ve tried a lot less rods out for this particular species. I would love to live on the doorstep of the Trent,Ribble,Severn or wye where barbel populations are strong enough to trott for them and catch them in reasonable numbers.
I think like yourself I would probably drop ledgering tactics all together if that ever was to be the case because I only ever want to catch fish on rivers on floats.

So based on all that my original hi S 15footers are my favorites to catch barbel on and I’ve got to say I’m a daiwa spectron fan if I’m going to use shorter rods.

This season though I think that might all change. I’ve got a TFG TSI 15’ to try.
It’s very light, extremely powerful, beautifully tippy and fitted out with the top end Fuji shit.

It’s the only reason I haven’t bought an accy speccy yet. I have a feeling I might be looking for a second as a spare but needs a real test first.
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you mention the tsi. Be interested to read that. I am on the lookout for a specialist and/ or feeder. Keeps me active.
 
I was going to start another thread to discuss this but seeing as this topic had been mentioned on this thread...
..is the notion of a rod's line rating a construct between a rod's resistance to bending and the line that you might think you'd use given that resistance to bending? ie a float rod has a low resistance to bending, so you'll be fishing for smaller fish and therefore the line rating is lower?
 
Damian Kimmins said:
I was going to start another thread to discuss this but seeing as this topic had been mentioned on this thread...
..is the notion of a rod's line rating a construct between a rod's resistance to bending and the line that you might think you'd use given that resistance to bending? ie a float rod has a low resistance to bending, so you'll be fishing for smaller fish and therefore the line rating is lower?
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Logically that makes sense but there is action to consider. Stiff tip float rods will have a through action that bend more than soft tip faster actioned rods with stiffer middle sections
Either could have a higher line rating than the other but not feel like it with regards to resistance to bending.
Some rods feel stiff and powerful but there is a point at which they’d lock up and break. They might have a higher resistance to bending than a rod that bends and bends and bends but doesn’t lock up till 8lb line snaps.

Then you’ve got leverage to consider ie the softer rod applying more pressure than a stiffer less bent rod

I think manufacturer line ratings are not even close half the time. Definitely best to start fishing within them, but once you know your rods, you’ll know what they can deal with.
 
I am looking for the perfect (in my mind) summer barbel rod and looking at carp float rods. I couldn't see any logical reason as to why a 6lb line might be the maximum line you could use, distance casting aside perhaps.
 
Damian Kimmins said:
I am looking for the perfect (in my mind) summer barbel rod and looking at carp float rods. I couldn't see any logical reason as to why a 6lb line might be the maximum line you could use, distance casting aside perhaps.
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Carp float rods tend to be stiffer tipped with quite powerful through actions. Yeah I agree, if it’s stated as a carp waggler type rod, it should deal with 6lb lines no problem.
 
I've used an 11' 6" team Daiwa commercial pellet waggler rod, the XP model, with a dumpy waggler for Barbel on the Trent. Landed fish close to double no problem. Quite a nice rod to use TBH. Think it's got Daiwa ST 8lbs through it.
 
Richard Isaacs said:
Carp float rods tend to be stiffer tipped with quite powerful through actions. Yeah I agree, if it’s stated as a carp waggler type rod, it should deal with 6lb lines no problem.
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Only I would be running a 12lb line through it?
 
Whilst we’re discussing rods and line rating you may be able to enlighten me . If my rod is rated up to 6lb and I put Maxima of this rating though it, some say with lower diameter hi tech lights you can put higher BS line of the same diameter, then some say they put even lower diameter braid of much higher BS on the rod. So is the rod rated for BS or diameter I ask myself? I am not sure I’ve made myself very clear. Yours confused
 
Michael Brough said:
Whilst we’re discussing rods and line rating you may be able to enlighten me . If my rod is rated up to 6lb and I put Maxima of this rating though it, some say with lower diameter hi tech lights you can put higher BS line of the same diameter, then some say they put even lower diameter braid of much higher BS on the rod. So is the rod rated for BS or diameter I ask myself? I am not sure I’ve made myself very clear. Yours confused
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Line ratings on rods are no where near that sophisticated or accurate. It’s a guide only. If it’s rated to 6lb line it’s going to be ok with most lines and braids up to around 0.18-0.2
The ratings are not often given on a lot of rods because it has to be quite vague for the examples you state above.
I categorize mine into 3 slots. There are other variations but I don’t own them so it’s easy.

Light action rods 3-4lb max (0.14-0.15)
Stepped up rods like what I’ve written about above 5-6lb max (0.18-0.2)
Power float rods 8-10lb max (0.22-0.25)

I don’t need a line rating to tell me what i should be threading through them as I can pretty much tell exactly where they should be from the minute I put line through them and give them a good bend.
 
There was an interesting thread over on the Maggotdrowing forum a while ago about line strength. How some of the top commercial anglers were using fairly light lines for pellet waggler fishing. I seem to remember that Steve Ringer was quoted as to be using 5lbs on his rods. Reason being that it cast better and less drag on the retrieve. He was catching Carp up to 15lbs on it.
 
Thanks Richard for your reply. I do appreciate your many posts for your knowledge and clarity and this reply is no exception. I will feel more comfortable now running a line a little heavier than the rod stated rating.
Cheers
 
Because you have a clutch on a fixed spool reel which you can set to release line under your desired pressure you could actually use whatever breaking strain line you want to so long as it will pass freely through the guides.
If the reel clutch was tightened up so as not to give line i'm sure most float rods would snap well before their recommended upper stated breaking strain of line would snap.
 
Ian Woods said:
Because you have a clutch on a fixed spool reel which you can set to release line under your desired pressure you could actually use whatever breaking strain line you want to so long as it will pass freely through the guides.
If the reel clutch was tightened up so as not to give line i'm sure most float rods would snap well before their recommended upper stated breaking strain of line would snap.
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Yes you could but by setting that clutch to prevent the rod breaking or releasing line with your finger brake on a pin doing the same job your also preventing the line from getting anywhere near its breaking strain aswell. Unless your fish are running through snags there’s no benefit to going too heavy on the line for exactly the reason you state

If a rod breaks under the same pressure 6lb line does and you use a clutch to protect it and the line, there’s no benefit to using 8lb line because your going to give line before the weakest part breaks….. Rod.
The only time the heavier line is an additional advantage is if it’s going to suffer abrasion.
 
Bringing my thread back to life again I thought this might be a good time to go through some more favorites but this time these are what i would consider power float rods.

This season has really opened my eyes a bit to what certain float rods are really capable of.
I’ve caught lots of large barbel into double figures on float rods, usually with the space to deal with the situation comfortably

This season has been different. I’ve been blessed with a very very small handful of float caught fish in situations that really does separate the rods a bit.
3 of those fish were 13lb to just ounces under 15lb and all of which were hooked within yards of viscous snags on a small river. Don’t get me wrong it wasn’t 3-0 to me as I lost a couple and one in particular I don’t know what else i could have done to stop it…….. anyway I put 2 of my rods through more pain than the others despite hammering them all in the season and watched these particular 2 bend in places I didn’t believe possible …… I’m convinced any rod lesser in carbon strength would have simply shattered to pieces. As a result I know the absolute limits of these blanks and again I’ve picked 4 favorites,

Unfortunately i don’t have 4 x 15ft rods of this caliber I only have 3 and only 2 of those have made the cut so the other 2 rods are 13/14ft but definitely considered as out and out power float rods.

Starting off with Daiwas 13ft tournament RSPF. Of the 4 I’m talking about it’s the least powerful in terms of stiffness but the blank strength is quite phenomenal. I wouldn’t call it fast action as certainly the tip and middle sections take on a curve quite quickly and if it wasn’t for the mighty back end it would be sitting in another list. However the last section is like steel and you can really lean into this rod with confidence.
The handle and reel seat set it apart from the others with typical Fuji kdps flowing into arm lock on some of the highest quality cork I’ve seen.
Guides stand off the blank beautifully as you would expect from daiwa but for some reason this particular rod didn’t get the Fuji’s like other top end Daiwas that I own.
Now this I find rather annoying because daiwa are known for their superb Fuji fittings so why they chose some other brand to clad a £400 top of the range rod is beyond me.

This aside the rod handles its self well while playing big fish, it’s extremely well balanced in the hand and something that’s quite important to me is that it’s finished really nicely. Daiwa were always quite a glossy brand with their rod finishes and this one makes a lovely change being matted off on the butt section.

Cons ….. non Fuji guides no excuses on a rod of this price point and of course…. Can’t stand those poxy hook keepers especially since daiwa fill them with epoxy. 7/10.

Free spirit Hi-S special power mk1 15ft.
It’s no secret I really love this float rod. …. I’ve got 2 of them and I’d buy a 3rd if I found one.
Blank strength is phenomenal. Power is exceptional and the action is definitely suited towards big hard fighting fish.
These rods got such a following on the river Trent for big barbel at one point, Roger hurst was telling me he built and sold loads of them mostly to nps members and I can absolutely see why.
They have a stiffish tip which pulls the top half of the middle section round fairly easily and from there onward the action gets stiffer and stiffer as the curve starts to get lower. It’s not a through action rod as the steel in the mid to low certainly doesn’t give itself up easily at all but it’s not tippy either as the tip itself is a little stiffer than most so its a moderately fast medium action which really works in the right situation and so strong …… I mean seriously strong. Lean in, don’t take your foot off the gas and just hold it till you feel the thump as that big fish turns and rolls over your line. Epic rod for big fish.

Now for the cons. Yes there’s afew.

In standard form the reel seat is awful.
The handle itself, cork quality, guide quality and rod bag are all pretty shit to be honest.
It’s not a versatile rod at all. The blank was just made to tame 10lb barbel in a yard of space but it feels totally wrong hitting fast bites casting smaller floats or playing a fish of 3-4lb
Yes you can customize it but in standard form…. 7.5/10 and all of those points are for its awesome action and capability with large fish.



Cont next post.
 
Next up is a rod I sold. It makes the list because it was nothing short of brilliant I caught loads of barbel on it and it was Stupid really on my part to sell because I loved it a lot. but its length never made sense to my fishing as I tend to jump 2 feet with my rods when i want something longer or shorter so 11/13/15 are my common rod lengths

This is a 14ft daiwa spectron xp mk2
In my opinion Daiwa have never bettered this float rod in terms as power capability and versatility

It eats big barbel for breakfast, it’s got a super fast hollow tip, a seamless action and some mega steel in the blank when the foot needs to go down.
it’s got the most awesome high stand off Fuji guides and kdps reel seat in full cork right into that armlock, it’s got great balance although a tad on the weighty side. It’s the heaviest of the 4 at 220g but typically daiwa put that weight into the right places so it can be comfortably held all day.

It’s very hard not to praise this rod and although it wasn’t a length that worked much for me that’s not a negative because it works in general. You can catch bits on this and it works in much the same respect it works getting leant into an angry double figure barbel.

Cons I’ve got just the 1 really and that’s the hook keeper. Same situation as the tourny.
There’s just nothing bad about this rod. Even its weight is just a high number in a catalog because you certainly don’t feel it in use. 9/10

Last one now and it’s an absolute belter.
Tfg tsi 15ft.
What a rod. Like the daiwa above it’s very versatile. It’s got that fast hollow tip for flicking out 3-4 grammers and hitting 1-2 pounders on lighter gear if needed but more importantly it’s got that immense strength and power needed to make it on this list.

It’s a fast action float rod with serious balls in both the middle and lower sections. and it’s banked me a load of big barbel this season including a summer snag seeking nene fish of 11lb

it shares a lot of attributes of the daiwa spectron above especially in terms of action and capability but it’s 1ft longer, 30g lighter and the handle in 2 inches shorter. If it had the same Fuji guides as the daiwa does, I don’t think it would be possible to mark it less than 10. The guides are decent and stand off well but Fuji they ain’t.
The handle is sublime being the only one with a full cork cover Fuji IPS

There is no cons with this rod just the odd area that perhaps isn’t perfect like the guides.
One might be put off by the fact it’s made by tfg, known for its cheaper lower quality end of the market. In this case it certainly wasn’t low quality as these rods were intended to be sold at the time for today’s acolyte money…… they didn’t sell many afaik because of the fact it’s still a TF gear. 9.5/10 for me on this amazing rod.
If you find one i strongly recommend buying it.
 
Richard Isaacs said:
Next up is a rod I sold. It makes the list because it was nothing short of brilliant I caught loads of barbel on it and it was Stupid really on my part to sell because I loved it a lot. but its length never made sense to my fishing as I tend to jump 2 feet with my rods when i want something longer or shorter so 11/13/15 are my common rod lengths

This is a 14ft daiwa spectron xp mk2
In my opinion Daiwa have never bettered this float rod in terms as power capability and versatility

It eats big barbel for breakfast, it’s got a super fast hollow tip, a seamless action and some mega steel in the blank when the foot needs to go down.
it’s got the most awesome high stand off Fuji guides and kdps reel seat in full cork right into that armlock, it’s got great balance although a tad on the weighty side. It’s the heaviest of the 4 at 220g but typically daiwa put that weight into the right places so it can be comfortably held all day.

It’s very hard not to praise this rod and although it wasn’t a length that worked much for me that’s not a negative because it works in general. You can catch bits on this and it works in much the same respect it works getting leant into an angry double figure barbel.

Cons I’ve got just the 1 really and that’s the hook keeper. Same situation as the tourny.
There’s just nothing bad about this rod. Even its weight is just a high number in a catalog because you certainly don’t feel it in use. 9/10

Last one now and it’s an absolute belter.
Tfg tsi 15ft.
What a rod. Like the daiwa above it’s very versatile. It’s got that fast hollow tip for flicking out 3-4 grammers and hitting 1-2 pounders on lighter gear if needed but more importantly it’s got that immense strength and power needed to make it on this list.

It’s a fast action float rod with serious balls in both the middle and lower sections. and it’s banked me a load of big barbel this season including a summer snag seeking nene fish of 11lb

it shares a lot of attributes of the daiwa spectron above especially in terms of action and capability but it’s 1ft longer, 30g lighter and the handle in 2 inches shorter. If it had the same Fuji guides as the daiwa does, I don’t think it would be possible to mark it less than 10. The guides are decent and stand off well but Fuji they ain’t.
The handle is sublime being the only one with a full cork cover Fuji IPS

There is no cons with this rod just the odd area that perhaps isn’t perfect like the guides.
One might be put off by the fact it’s made by tfg, known for its cheaper lower quality end of the market. In this case it certainly wasn’t low quality as these rods were intended to be sold at the time for today’s acolyte money…… they didn’t sell many afaik because of the fact it’s still a TF gear. 9.5/10 for me on this amazing rod.
If you find one i strongly recommend buying it.
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I had a new rs. It was a great cheap buy but stupidly didn't keep it long. I have a tsi but at specialist length of 12. My favourite in that size is my sportex TP barbel of the similar vintage but with a Polaris float the tsi has caught really well late summer. For 45£ paired with the new cadence reel at £60 I bought on here in the summer that's a seriously good combo for silly money. Great informative write up as always Richard.
 
I have the Harrell RSPF rods in 13 and 14ft and they are nice rods, I think there is a little more power in the 14ft model but I prefer to use the 13 footer.
After using them many times to target barbel whilst float fishing and then comparing them to the drennan acolyte specimen rods in the same scenarios I much prefer the drennan for numerous reasons....the drennans are lighter and allow for a faster strike, I think the drennans have a faster action and they simply feel better in the hand which makes a days trotting a more pleasant and enjoyable experience....for me at least.
Powerwise between them?...I think they are very similar in that respect both having that very stiff lower section for when you need to put that extra bit of pressure on a fish.
 
Here are a couple of suggestions from someone that has a similar thing for trying float rods. Whilst our tastes and opinions don't always match, there's some overlap.

First up, ignore the excess weight and try to find a Shimano Aerocast Specimen Match (ACM45SPC).

Second, for the minimal outlay it's likely to cost, see if you can find a Garbolino Altima 15' Power Specimen. There's also a rod in the later Essential range which looks suspiciously similar barring cosmetics.

Third, give the 15' Acolyte Specimen a go for the smaller species. Whilst eminently capable with real lumps, it's not the brute you seem to think it is. I've been happily using the Specimens for big grayling or even small grayling when there's extra water on. Small barbel, chub and even modest stillwater roach as by catch have not been beyond them.
 
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