length of hooklengths?

[Tony Stone]

I've been thinking more and more about my approach to the River Thames for this year, probably overthinking it if I'm honest!!

I have always used long hooklengths, as is traditional for barbel fishing, but I got thinking about the amount of barbel that are caught by carp anglers on shorter lengths of say 6inchs give or take.

Generally I'm using one of around 3ft in length, but think I might try considerably shorter ones this year.

My results are generally poor anyway, I've only had a handful of barbel in 10+ yrs of targeting them in the Thames. By handful I really mean a handful, probably 5 fish in 10yrs!!

I fish all the popular areas of the lower river but my catch results are approx. 0.5 fish per year!! Depressing when I think about it lol

 

[Tony Stone]

I strayed off the point of the post slightly, lol

Generally, what length hooklengths would you use on a river like the Thames??

 

[Jon Young]

I fish the Severn so might not help but I always used to use around 3 foot hook links. Last year I was targeting a deep swim for a few weeks and was getting loads of huge bites but as I struck I missed every time. They were the sort of bites that would normally hook itself. I shortened my hooklink down to about 12 inch and hooked every fish after that so iv kind of stuck with it while it’s working. It’s worked just as well in shallow swims and when there’s been water on.

 

[Tony Stone]

I fish the Severn so might not help but I always used to use around 3 foot hook links. Last year I was targeting a deep swim for a few weeks and was getting loads of huge bites but as I struck I missed every time. They were the sort of bites that would normally hook itself. I shortened my hooklink down to about 12 inch and hooked every fish after that so iv kind of stuck with it while it’s working. It’s worked just as well in shallow swims and when there’s been water on.

That's good to know Jon, thanks.

I was considering using between 6 and 12inch to start with and see how I get on. Thing is the fish are so few and far between on the Thames its hard to see whats causing the blanks!! Shame we don't have any "runs rivers" to try this stuff out on like carp runs waters

 

[Mark Swaby]

The bigger the bait the longer the hooklength, on 10mm boilies i will go down to 6 inches but on a large bait like a big piece of meat or 2 x 22mm boilie around 3 ft. But i usually use a backlead on small baits and tend to fish smaller rivers. If you think you are getting missed Barbel bites,usually one hard 3 inch thump, than change things.

 

[Tony Stone]

The bigger the bait the longer the hooklength, on 10mm boilies i will go down to 6 inches but on a large bait like a big piece of meat or 2 x 22mm boilie around 3 ft. But i usually use a backlead on small baits and tend to fish smaller rivers.

That's interesting Mark, may I ask why shorter with smaller baits and longer with bigger baits? what is your thinking behind that?

 

[Mark Swaby]

A big bait can take longer to get into the mouth properly, simple as that. Also on a big bait i rarely use a backlead, so want the bait and lead to be some distance apart. Its something Tony Miles wrote years ago and it always worked for me. The only difference would be Floodwater where i will cut back the hooklength on big baits to 12 inches and fish upstream. I rarely miss bites that are from Barbel so rarely have to change anything. Its all about realising you have been 'done' by a Barbel picking up the bait and not getting hooked and need to change something.One time it happened to me twice in a row, i changed and it turned out to be a 4 lb fish (after two doubles) .Another time a near 14lber from a river without a river record.

 

[Stephen Crowhurst]

Being in a similar boat, I’ve come to the conclusion that “the rules” aren’t, Barbel can’t read read so they don’t follow them. Every river is different, what works on a prolific venue can be completely counter productive on a low density river. So we have two choices to experiment and guess, this is incredibly labour intensive, not to mention you may just chase yourself away from what works simply because it’s not worked at that point. The other option is to work from collecting knowledge, if there’s common trends in things this helps to get to a worker, I don’t mean copy others or stalk people but retain the tid bits. If the majority of captures are coming from Carpers, why? Maybe it’s the rig style, maybe it’s the approach (less casts) maybe it’s simply a time thing, if they are putting in 100 hours a month and your putting in 10, well.
What I’m rambling about is don’t get concerned on what works for others on completely different rivers and simply work from a known. If the Carpers are catching Barbel as “bycatch” they are probably quite forthcoming. I wasted a fair bit of time trying out methods for the Trent or Wye published around, I’ve now certainly identified what doesn’t work locally... give me 10 years il work out what does... haha

 

[Ian Sewter]

On a number of rivers I have used a 4 inch hooklength to a method feeder. I often feel a problem is barbell spooking off almost vertical line near the hookbait but I fish the method without a backlead with some success. However if I was to use a shorter hooklength I would normally use a backlead to try to avoid the spooking issue. Of course some bottoms do not suit backleading. But what's the difference between a backlead with a 12 inch hooklength compared to no backlead and a 3 foot hooklength? If you are getting quite a few bites you can experiment, especially with 2 rods but if you are only getting 0.5 fish a year conclusions are difficult. There is nothing more neurotic that a blanking angler!

 

[Ian Grant]

The Length of hooklengths i use on the Thames are the same as i use on other rivers i don't measure them but + or - an inch or so about 18", dropping to 6" or thereabouts really to my mind means using a bolt rig, which i think just makes the fish ever cuter though you can't argue that they are not efficient hookers, it's just my opinion that they will eventually work against you ... and others, and they you ! I use running leads, and always have done.
A Barbel hasn't got the size of mouth that a Carp has pound for pound, and if at least hair rigging, when that bare hook has entered it's mouth, is going to be very hard for it to eject, if also counterbalanced with heavy putty it would be a freak - though not impossible for a Barbel to eject the hook, i would say 3 foot is a bit excessive for a hook length .. just my opinion ... but would be far better than one of 6" - Bolt rig or not ! Looking at your rig ...or length of it in my opinion is going to send you on a wild goose chase, and just compound your problems not solve them.
The reasons for your poor catch rates Tony have got absolutely nothing to do with your rigs, you need to be looking at other aspects of your fishing than worrying about your rigs, and it's likely no one thing, you may need to completely overhaul your approach, Good luck mate whatever you decide to do.

 

[Tony Stone]

Thanks for the reply’s and I think you are right @Ian Grant there probably are other factors in my lack of results.
Minimal baiting and fishing lots of different areas probably don’t help. I tend to only introduce feed through a feeder or pva bags and not much of it to be honest. And I jump from stretch to stretch never really fishing the same areas more than a couple of times a season. Maybe I’ll make that my first changes and pick a couple of spots and bait them and keep the rigs as they are for now, after all I have caught using them before

 

[Terry Simner]

Thanks for the reply’s and I think you are right @Ian Grant there probably are other factors in my lack of results.
Minimal baiting and fishing lots of different areas probably don’t help. I tend to only introduce feed through a feeder or pva bags and not much of it to be honest. And I jump from stretch to stretch never really fishing the same areas more than a couple of times a season. Maybe I’ll make that my first changes and pick a couple of spots and bait them and keep the rigs as they are for now, after all I have caught using them before

Better to know one stretch really well than know just a little about several, possibly disparate, stretches ... IMO. Talk to anglers on the bank, take your time, decide on a stretch, and throw all your efforts in that direction. The very best of luck Tony.

 

[Ian Grant]

Thanks for the reply’s and I think you are right @Ian Grant there probably are other factors in my lack of results.
Minimal baiting and fishing lots of different areas probably don’t help. I tend to only introduce feed through a feeder or pva bags and not much of it to be honest. And I jump from stretch to stretch never really fishing the same areas more than a couple of times a season. Maybe I’ll make that my first changes and pick a couple of spots and bait them and keep the rigs as they are for now, after all I have caught using them before

II think you knew the answers all along Tony ! I wouldn’t go mad on the baiting find a good bait ... and believe me meat is one of the best, and that doesn’t have to be luncheon, chopped chicken breast lightly fried, beef burger, I could go on, mincemeat is a great loose feed with hemp bound with wheetabix, boillies steer clear of the crap, the well established companies haven’t got there by selling crap, but go easy on them try and avoid fish meals unless you like Bream ! Lol If you take your own advice I reckon you’re mostly sorted mate, most important bit is not jumping from stretch to stretch, try and stay on one, and in one small area at a time. Good luck mate

 

[Tony Stone]

Cheers guys, plenty of info there for me to work on, thank you all

 

[Dave Brooksbank]

I've been thinking more and more about my approach to the River Thames for this year, probably overthinking it if I'm honest!!

I have always used long hooklengths, as is traditional for barbel fishing, but I got thinking about the amount of barbel that are caught by carp anglers on shorter lengths of say 6inchs give or take.

Generally I'm using one of around 3ft in length, but think I might try considerably shorter ones this year.

My results are generally poor anyway, I've only had a handful of barbel in 10+ yrs of targeting them in the Thames. By handful I really mean a handful, probably 5 fish in 10yrs!!

I fish all the popular areas of the lower river but my catch results are approx. 0.5 fish per year!! Depressing when I think about it lol

Tony How much time are you putting in Barbel only hunting in a season on Thames.
Do you fish in low clear conditions as well as pushing through coloured?

 

[Nick Coulthurst]

Although it’s my favourite style of fishing on small to medium sized rivers, I have never had much success with roving on the Trent, and prefer to fish over a bed of bait with infrequent casting. I just don’t think it suits bigger rivers because the holding features are not so obvious.

 

[Alex Gowney]

On the Thames you need to establish how many small or "nuisance" fish there are in your swim generally. This can be achieved by the simple means of light gear and small particle fishing for a few hours. If you get roach after roach etc. it's likely that your loose particle or feeder attractors are being mopped up before a barbel even knows they are there. In this scenario you may need to up your amount of loose feed or use large pellets, boilies etc. that small fish can't handle. As I love hemp as an attractor I tend to up the amount of feed as a few hours feeding smaller fish (and catching them) will often lead to a barbel later on, possibly alerted to what's on offer by the activity. Works for me anyway

 

[Richard Barnatt]

The Length of hooklengths i use on the Thames are the same as i use on other rivers i don't measure them but + or - an inch or so about 18", dropping to 6" or thereabouts really to my mind means using a bolt rig, which i think just makes the fish ever cuter though you can't argue that they are not efficient hookers, it's just my opinion that they will eventually work against you ... and others, and they you ! I use running leads, and always have done.
A Barbel hasn't got the size of mouth that a Carp has pound for pound, and if at least hair rigging, when that bare hook has entered it's mouth, is going to be very hard for it to eject, if also counterbalanced with heavy putty it would be a freak - though not impossible for a Barbel to eject the hook, i would say 3 foot is a bit excessive for a hook length .. just my opinion ... but would be far better than one of 6" - Bolt rig or not ! Looking at your rig ...or length of it in my opinion is going to send you on a wild goose chase, and just compound your problems not solve them.
The reasons for your poor catch rates Tony have got absolutely nothing to do with your rigs, you need to be looking at other aspects of your fishing than worrying about your rigs, and it's likely no one thing, you may need to completely overhaul your approach, Good luck mate whatever you decide to do.

Looking at your impressive results on the Thames, I would take any pointers you can or would give regarding rigs/bait. One thing seems to crop up from time to time is fish being spooked by flurocarbon hooklengths, is that something you use or is it braid or mono ?

 

[Ian Grant]

Looking at your impressive results on the Thames, I would take any pointers you can or would give regarding rigs/bait. One thing seems to crop up from time to time is fish being spooked by flurocarbon hooklengths, is that something you use or is it braid or mono ?

I use a coated braid hook length, and mono mainline Richard, I always backlead my mainline wherever possible, and always try to keep my lines as slack as possible, i’ve always believed tight lines, and especially in mid water spook barbel, and do everything to try and avoid that situation .... interesting video !