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Late Spawning time.??

I think the point is that the law exists- we are not debating whether or not there needs to be a law. This means those that want it changed unfortunately need to do the leg work in order to propose a change and that requires compelling arguments. Just giving it a go to see what effect it has isn't going to work. You also have the problem of trying to determine and analyse the impact opening up the season has had. There are so many variables. Even now, we are seeing people state that they have seen barbel spawning on some rivers. So within the existing close season then. Abolishing the close season simply because there are those that currently break the law so why not just let everyone fish just isn't right in my view.

And if people believe that clubs/fishery owners etc should be allowed to operate a more dynamic policy on their waters, then why can't they equally apply themselves to organising a bit of close season balifing to deal with poachers and law breakers? I really think allowing clubs etc the power to determine their own close season rules is a potential nightmare, particularly given the complexity that can exist with ownership (connected stretches, different clubs controlling each bank).


QUOTE=Craig Wood;175477]No one can say that the climate is going through change.
The seasons change from one year to another..
No need for further proof..

Its the same argument that's been going on about the Otter, " we need proof " and we all know where that stance from certain quarters has got us..

The only way we will all know, if scrapping the current close season would do any harm, is by simply giving it a go..

I have yet to read or hear any good argument to keep the current close season on rivers..

Unless River angling changes with the times, well in my opinion the numbers that currently fish rivers will continue to fall..[/QUOTE]
 
Like anything in life, too much of a good thing is not healthy, personally I'd get bored if I knew I could fish for Barbel year round. Agreed the timings of the close season could possibly be reviewed, but I think we need it in some way, shape, firstly for the sake of the fish to be left in relative peace, and for ourselves to reflect on seasons past and get ready for the challenges of the new season.

Darren
 
Graham Elliott said:
So how are Clubs who have multiple waters going to communicate to all it's members when certain ones are out of bounds due spawning.
It's an unthought through nonsense.

Are AT going to gain members or lose them by supporting a close season abolition?
Lose a number I would suggest.

Graham.
Click to expand...

Come on now Graham in these days of social media, email, websites etc that is hardly a difficult or costly proposition - you could even back it up with a good old fashioned sign on the gate. It is routine practice now on many stillwaters to close for a period once the fish start to spawn so to say its unworkable is simply not true I'm afraid.

The AT know how polarising the close season issue is and they are neither supporting not opposing an abolition - they are however open to the idea of some science being brought into play.

Hypothetical question for you, imagine the close season was abolished and you were sat on your clubs committee and voting on the dates you wished to close your river to best protect the fish around spawning. Would you really chose March 14th to June 16th?

I for one would not, but i would be curious to hear your thoughts....
 
Darren Hawen said:
Like anything in life, too much of a good thing is not healthy, personally I'd get bored if I knew I could fish for Barbel year round. Agreed the timings of the close season could possibly be reviewed, but I think we need it in some way, shape, firstly for the sake of the fish to be left in relative peace, and for ourselves to reflect on seasons past and get ready for the challenges of the new season.

Darren
Click to expand...

Apart from the immotive reasons you suggest Daren, with which I agree, there is little left I fear to support the closed season in it's present form. You will know the closed season was brought about solely to protect the interests of the game fisher, not the welfare of coarse fish, if that was the reason then why can we fish in still waters and canals?

Again this close is only supported by legit anglers which are diminishing in numbers whilst we have to endure poaching and other activities that ruin the rivers.

IF the closed season was polced effectively I would not complain, but I fear the damage incurred whilst we the real guardians are laid up outweighs any benefit the close may have.
 
Graham Elliott said:
So how are Clubs who have multiple waters going to communicate to all it's members when certain ones are out of bounds due spawning.
It's an unthought through nonsense.

Are AT going to gain members or lose them by supporting a close season abolition?
Lose a number I would suggest.

Graham.
Click to expand...

All clubs I imagine would be aware of where spawning areas are, and as said communicating such to iit's members would be easy. Or as I alluded to cordon them off.
 
Guy/Neil. I think your perception of how many anglers actually use social media or the internet is incorrect. I would guess about 70 percent in The World that includes older people.

I would also suggest that clubs in general have less than 50% of email addresses of their membership and less than 10% are regular users of a clubs website.

Yes, a group of anglers turn up to a fishery after travelling 50 miles to find a notice saying...Fishing Suspended. Meanwhile anglers of a different club happily fish the other bank.

At the moment it's clearish. Because of the Law.

Guy. Dates? As a pike angler,? As a barbel angler? As a carp angler?

Graham
 
Going back to Graham`s original post, I would expect the barbel to spawn in the next prolonged warm spell, bet you a fiver it will be next week Graham!
We have had reports of a bit of spawning activity in late April, which is not uncommon, but the limited results from the BS Spawning Survey show that they are spawning a bit earlier, maybe linked to the warmer springs linked to climate change. Every spring is different, though, and we have had a cool one up to now, but I think the barbel are ready to go when the next temperature rise triggers the process.

It would be great, and very much appreciated, if anglers who see any spawnings use the BS spawning survey form on the website to record the date at least, but the more data the better in order to build up a picture based on best available evidence; plus it could be worth a fiver of Graham`s to me if he takes up the challenge!

On the Close Season issue, the present situation demonstrates that barbel in particular would benefit, in my view, from being left alone at the moment. I would say that aggregations of spawny fish, gathering in numbers, possibly still feeding and likely to be found and exploited are at risk from being caught, recaught, handled and stressed before they have had a chance to spawn, and this disruption of spawning groupings could affect spawning success and future recruitment.
Once they are in the act, they do not tend to feed or get caught, and after spawning, the risk is to the welfare of individual fish, rather than the future populations; disturbing and stressing them before they spawn must have a negative effect on both the gathering process and on the health of fish carrying lots of eggs, I would suggest.
The fish are very vulnerable at the moment, and I have seen them grouping on the Hants. Avon and had reports of same on the Kennet; they need leaving alone!!

The last Freshwater Review process led to the retention of the Coarse Fish Close Season on rivers based on purely conservation grounds, and any future change would be based on the precautionary principle that there is a risk to fish health, survival and spawning success, no longer applying.

I am firmly of the opinion that conservation must be the only basis on which to base the decision, and that the current dates are fine; if anything they could be changed to protect pike, for example, who may be spawning in late Feb and early March these days!
Potential poaching/commercial interests/angler preference/bankside regrowth etc are of varying importance, and should be viewed as incidental, and a simple blanket ban is easy to understand and enforce, the other options, with different or varying dates on different rivers or stretches would cause chaos and confusion, with clubs/syndicates/anglers with adjacent or opposite bank fishing in possible dispute.

Give the fish a rest, keep it simple, even if not perfect, the current dates are a best fit, and give us a hand on the Spawning Survey so we can learn more about it anyway!
 
Graham Elliott said:
Guy/Neil. I think your perception of how many anglers actually use social media or the internet is incorrect.

Yes, a group of anglers turn up to a fishery after travelling 50 miles to find a notice saying...Fishing Suspended. Meanwhile anglers of a different club happily fish the other bank.

At the moment it's clearish. Because of the Law.

Guy. Dates? As a pike angler,? As a barbel angler? As a carp angler?

Graham
Click to expand...

I would bet the majority of anglers are computer savvy, however clubs could assist more in protecting sensitive areas I am sure, however BAA and the like show no initiative in doing that, even my little club that controls the Arrow have little regard to habitat. So as responsible anglers we need to take the lead, but there is no chance of that unless we tackle the real culprits .
Or am I just thinking that no one really gives a toss about such matters? I read about how much a deplleted EA fisheries team are working, but the cynic in me says its just veneer , I do my bit in challenging these miscreants, as many others do, but when you see thec scale of the problem, then it seems futile.
Unless the law is supported then scrap the close season and let the anglers police our rivers.
 
Hi Pete.

I had a look yesterday on the Pats. As Howard reported on the Kennet......there is so much algae in the water at the moment that you couldn't see down a foot.

No point betting £5 on such a varied outcome. I can only say locally the carp are 2 weeks behind already from the norm. Last wednesday on a lake the odd couple of carp were starting to follow each other at a faster pace in mid water. A precursor to spawning.

Next time you are on the Loddon I will show you the multiple historic spawning sites on the River as I told the EA rep Dom when I showed him one of the many on the Lower river..

Graham
 
Neil.
Honest Answer. When was the last time a fellow angler (non bailiff) asked to check your permit?

For me? Not in three years.

Anglers need to report to their club, the police and the EA.

But yes, most don't bother.
 
Just on a point of fact, as Guy Baxendale posted above, the Angling Trust does not take any formal position on the close season.

Where I think the organisation should be applauded is in accepting that this is a live issue and in providing an objective forum for a rational consideration and debate of the arguments.

This is in marked contrast to some groups who favour the status quo and practice censorship on their sites to suppress conflicting opinions.

Shocking behaviour in a democracy!

The AT's content on the close season debate makes for thought-provoking reading and can be found here:


The River Close Season Debate - The Angling Trust
 
Hi Mark.
Yes I understood that from Guys post re AT.

I just had a view that they would lose more members from coming out (if they did) on abolition than otherwise.

Unless of course the tackle trade underwrit any losses.

It would be interesting to see what any of their political hierachy, working as well with either the EA, Rivers Trust, Thames Water etc etc. or all of those organisations think.

And yes. "This is in marked contrast to some groups who favour the status quo and practice censorship on their sites to suppress conflicting opinions." Agree entirely with that thought.

At least BFW gives an outlet for views whether conflicting or not.

Graham
 
Agree with that, Graham.

With the exception of a few clowns along the way, BFW has always been a place where grown ups can agree to differ.

I wish you and everybody in here all the best for the Opening this season.

Tight lines,

Mark
 
Guy Baxendale said:
Hypothetical question for you, imagine the close season was abolished and you were sat on your clubs committee and voting on the dates you wished to close your river to best protect the fish around spawning. Would you really chose March 14th to June 16th?

I for one would not, but i would be curious to hear your thoughts....
Click to expand...

Although the current situation is probably not ideal, it is at least national and widely known (by non-anglers also).

Your question raises issues such as rivers with multiple clubs all imposing different restricted periods, pretty much on an ad-hoc basis, (and maybe even different times for different species) which just seems to me to be totally unworkable. The "sign on the gate" is fine for lakes but not much use on rural small rivers, or even, as an example, the public sections of the Thames.

Perhaps a change to the national period - moving it by some weeks, but for me, this "local rules" concept just seems a non-starter.
 
Totally unworkable having local rules ? If you have a problem with poaching now
with the present closed season ? How would it stop if you had local rules ?
Nothing would change ? There would all ways be some one ready to ignore what ever rules were in place ?
 
Well.... Should I have taken Pete Readings Bet?

To be honest the couple of times I have been out there has been so much algae in the water hard to see anything even though on a few places they clear the water many times when they are at it.

Many signs yet on your patch?

Graham
 
Can't see anything on the Wey or Stour because of what I suspect to be eutrophication .
Rivers are low, which seems to increase the density of algae , and of course increases the stw mix which can make a river eutrophic.
The Wey has been particularly affected by this phenomenon for some years, ...even in the cooler months.
 
Guy Baxendale said:
The close season, in its current form, doesn't work on any of them.

The dates are utterly wrong
Click to expand...

That might be the case for some species but, down here, the dace, perch and roach have all spawned during the close season as they have done for as long as I can remember. So, for those species, the dates are far from being "utterly wrong".

Or do only barbel count when discussing a change in legislation?
 
Nigel Gray said:
That might be the case for some species but, down here, the dace, perch and roach have all spawned during the close season as they have done for as long as I can remember. So, for those species, the dates are far from being "utterly wrong".

Or do only barbel count when discussing a change in legislation?
Click to expand...

That's a very salient point Nigel.

I'd be in favour of extending the close season through to the end of June, but possibly moving the start date back a week. From a personal perspective fishing for barbel in June holds little appeal.
 
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