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Late Spawning time.??

Hi Tone.

Interesting. I reckon the carp here on most lakes are a couple of weeks behind and a cold May overall.
Last time it was similar they spawned 3rd week June towards the end June this way..

I could, hopefully be very wrong.

Graham
 
I completely agree with Mark Anderson's view above.

The current close season dates are simply no longer fit for purpose.

A review of existing legislation is needed, with the best outcome being more flexibility to ensure that spawning fish on the rivers are genuinely protected at the time they actually need protection.

With that in mind, I would like to invite any of you who would like to debate these issues sensibly to take a look at the Facebook page: "Review the close season on UK rivers."

https://www.facebook.com/groups/792310724185952/?fref=ts

Your views - pro or con the status quo - would be very welcome.

Thank you,

Mark Berry
Angling Trust No. 74193
 
I have yet to see a argument for the close season (in its current form) that actually makes any sense at all, the truth it is out of date on a number of levels and simply not fit for purpose.

Many vocal pro retention anglers like to take the moral high ground and talk about the selfish anglers that want the current close season to be changed. I urge you to not allow them to do so as the reality is quite the opposite.....year after year the close season creates a massive influx of anglers right at the point that fish are either spawning or at their weakest post spawning.

More and more people are starting to understand this and it seems finally that there are some discussion underway at the EA to makes some changes. I urge everyone on here, if you really care about the future of our sport push for change in the close season, join the FB page, lobby the Angling Trust.

Laws in the country are reviewed and modernised over and over again - why are some people so frightened of reviewing an Act of Parliament passed in 1878 ?!!

With temps due to dip to low teens tommorrow i serious doubt the fish on my local river will have spawned, and even if they have they will be in ****ty order - what a farce the close season is.
 
Great post Guy.

The act was made at a time when 90% of Sheffield used to fish the river and eat all they caught.

Lets move on
 
guy go and take a look at some of the small rivers and see the effects that letting people on them would do during spawning, as i said in my post self control go`s out the window when they spot fish as those who just want an easy catch will sit there all day.
the call for it to be scrapped normally comes from those with a vested interest, like tackle dealers, guides etc.
having witnessed greedy self centered anglers bagging on unfit fish over spawning areas at the start of the season for me that`s even more of a reason to keep it or move the dates. simple thing is those who want to catch fish during the river closed season can go to a commercial
 
Let clubs police themselves. It would be much easier to shut fishing down when the spawning is actually taking place, much easier for bailiffs and volunteers to police and advise anglers wanting to fish at an inappropriate time.

A spawning fish isn't a feeding fish in any event. Fish can linger in the areas below spawning beds for months after spawning as these areas are often the most oxygenated and fast flowing.

Once they have spawned they need a feed, without being one eyed it is impossible to say fish should only be caught from area x, at y time of year. I know of fish that are resident in spawning areas throughout the year!

A fresh spawned barbel caught on June 16th will be in better shape than one caught from a low level river in the middle of August at night.
 
Mark I don't need to go and look at small rivers as I've fished on a few of them.....and medium ones and big ones! The close season, in its current form, doesn't work on any of them.

I have to say it did make me laugh that your argument for keeping the close season is that you have seen people fishing for spawning barbel during the open season!!! It makes no sense I'm afraid. Even fishing away from the spawning redds you will commonly be fishing for fish in a substantially weakened conditioned.

The dates are utterly wrong
 
totally with you on this guy. fish just dont feed when spawning and also i am sick of seeing people on my local river (don) fishing out off season
 
You're absolutely right, Graham. Breaking the law is wrong and should be punished.

But isn't the truth of the matter that this particular legislation - dating from way back in 1878 - is not only out of date but also unenforceable?

How could it be otherwise when it is so routinely flouted and the Police and EA alike have so many other jobs to do and such rapidly diminishing budgets with which to do them!

We've heard multiple stories on our FB page from responsible anglers who have done the right thing and reported illegal fishing, to no avail.

So the reality is: there is no close season at the moment. There is only a three-month free-for-all when bailiffs, clubs and other law-abiding anglers like ourselves are arbitrarily banned from the banks!

The fish are not being protected.

The law-abiding anglers are increasingly frustrated at being made fools of.

Common sense tells us that this can't be right.

Laws can be changed - and this one certainly needs to be.
 
Mark.

Or should anglers start to insist on action.

Every time I have reported and Incident to the EA they ask me if I want an update on the action taken, or I insist on one.

Every time I have reported to a controlling club, they have taken action. Sometimes immediately.

Last example was on RDAA waters when 3 baliffs turned up in 20 minutes and ejected 4 Lithuanians that didn't heed my warning.

Of course, it's easier to cop out and ignore the problem that affects OUR sport.

I ALWAYS advise anglers if I see them fishing illegally. If they ignore me, I report them.

The reality is, there is a Close season. It's the Law. No ifs no buts. Until it changes everyone of us should have the cojones to do something to support it.

If your area is particularly bad, get some mates and go and see the local Crime Commisioner and demand action. Sometimes you have to take action and not be so bloody defeatist.
 
Hi men ,

Only if you see it happening Graham , it's common knowledge in my area of fishing , fish taking , even with vans reg numbers being shared on Facebook , but it's possibly happening where we shan't see , they ain't that stupid .


Hatter
 
Playing devil's advocate here .If there was no river close season and you could fish all the year round, when would people stop and start barbel fishing ? On many big rivers with turbid water you would have a job telling when the fish had started or finished spawning so you couldn't regulate your angling on that basis . There is also a degree of hypocricy with this close season debate . Many of us , me included ,fish the stillwaters in the late spring and early summer when fish are spawning , bit of a dual standard ? I bet there aren't many who hang up their coarse gear on March the 15th and dust it down for the opening day ignoring the sport to be had on stillwaters as they may harm the fish .
 
I'm not sure if you're referring specifically to close season poaching there, Graham?

Be that as it may, your actions are admirable of course.

But for every example of poachers being swiftly ejected, there are plenty of others like these taken from the FB page I referred to above and relating specifically to close season abuses when responsible anglers are off the banks:

"The poaching and the lack of any policing is a major issue. There are people out every day of the week on the Thames openly fishing. The are covert ones at night also with nets and set lines."

Sick of people fishing Topcliffe Weir on the Leeds book,always someone there fishing two rods."

"The EA has limited funding and every penny spent on chasing unlicensed poachers is a penny that's not spent on fisheries."

"I reported people fishing on river severn a few weeks ago and EA got back to me week later saying sorry we couldn't visit but we will monitor this"

There are plenty of other examples I could quote and I am sure that most on here will feel these have the ring of truth about them.

The bigger picture is alluded to in Mark's reply: the biggest deterrent to poaching is responsible anglers out on the bank, keeping a look out.

So taking us out of the picture completely for a random three-month period and then letting us all back on all at once just at the time the cyprinids are either spawning or recovering is a gift to the poachers and a nonsense for conservation.

It's just daft!

The close season is just no longer achieving what it was designed to do.

It's a frustration for the growing number of anglers who see its contradictions.

It's not protecting spawning fish.

It's a problem the EA could do without.

It just needs to be reviewed.
 
well said graham elliott and that`s what happens when i phone in or get a call.
the trouble is there are to many " armchair bailiffs " who say a lot but do nothing, why do`s mark berry think bailiffs are banned from their own club banks during the close season ? i still walk the banks everyday and this close season we have not had a single reported incident of "poaching" or fishing out of season that`s mainly because of good signage, good relationship with walkers etc and local residents along with making locals know about the season etc via local social media.
their case for scrapping the close season just seems to me to be based on the the fact its an old law and the " assumption " that the rivers must be getting plundered because they are not there.
they will have a pretty hard job getting the trout and salmon anglers to scrap their season as well. you cant say that you only want the coarse season scrapped on rivers and leave the game fishing season intact now can you.
 
If you accept the argument that fish benefit from a period of zero angling pressure (lines and angler's in the water etc.) during the spawning phase then I think it's difficult to argue that you may as well abandon the close season because there are people openly ignoring the close season law so why not just let everyone fish all year round. Whilst it means that fish never experience zero angling pressure, the reality must surely be that they are at least experiencing substantially less. This would then come down to more effective baliffing. You don't need to be actually fishing to monitor and have a presence on the banks, and generally speaking you don't need to operate in some official capacity to patrol and make an intervention. Simply saying that because there are people ignoring the law and fishing in the close season then we may as well allow everyone to do it because that will help control poaching feels a bit flawed to me.

The issue of when the close season should start and end is an entirely separate one and a bit of a nightmare it seems to me. Fish spawning at different times each year because of temperature and weather and this then potentially playing out differently on each river. And that's where it's possible to accurately determine when spawning is actually happening. It can be more obvious on some rivers than others. Plus, isn't it the case that fish can spawn more than once in a season? So how will you know when they are completely finished. If we encouraged fish to smoke then that might help I suppose. In theory you could just leave it to clubs to manage in a more dynamic way with decisions taken each year based on observed spawning activity. That would require a fair bit of organisation and it's not hard to imagine how that could get horribly out of shape with inconsistent protocols being applied across the country. You could introduce broad, national guidelines I suppose but it's not inconceivable that clubs eager for new members or under pressure from existing members, choose to apply or interpret those guidelines with a little more flexibility.

Timing wise, it might generally be the case that the existing close season needs to move because our climate has evolved and so if we want to be confident that broadly, most fish would have substantially completed their spawning, we may want to shift the dates. The problem there is that I don't believe we have the imperical evidence to support a proposal for change.
 
No one can say that the climate is going through change.
The seasons change from one year to another..
No need for further proof..

Its the same argument that's been going on about the Otter, " we need proof " and we all know where that stance from certain quarters has got us..

The only way we will all know, if scrapping the current close season would do any harm, is by simply giving it a go..

I have yet to read or hear any good argument to keep the current close season on rivers..

Unless River angling changes with the times, well in my opinion the numbers that currently fish rivers will continue to fall..
 
So how are Clubs who have multiple waters going to communicate to all it's members when certain ones are out of bounds due spawning.
It's an unthought through nonsense.

Are AT going to gain members or lose them by supporting a close season abolition?
Lose a number I would suggest.

Graham.
 
Mark P Smith said:
well said graham elliott and that`s what happens when i phone in or get a call.
the trouble is there are to many " armchair bailiffs " who say a lot but do nothing, why do`s mark berry think bailiffs are banned from their own club banks during the close season ? i still walk the banks everyday and this close season we have not had a single reported incident of "poaching" or fishing out of season that`s mainly because of good signage, good relationship with walkers etc and local residents along with making locals know about the season etc via local social media.
their case for scrapping the close season just seems to me to be based on the the fact its an old law and the " assumption " that the rivers must be getting plundered because they are not there.
they will have a pretty hard job getting the trout and salmon anglers to scrap their season as well. you cant say that you only want the coarse season scrapped on rivers and leave the game fishing season intact now can you.
Click to expand...

Game fishing seasons , particularly the one for none migratory trout are often used as an excuse to fish a river during the coarse fish close season . There are angling clubs that have so called '' mixed ' fisheries which means you can fish with worm , spinner , fly etc , nominally for trout in rivers which don't have many spotty herberts in residence . I have challenged several anglers on rivers in my area using coarse fishing methods in the coarse close season , there reply '' fishing for trout mate ' . It's daft :mad:
 
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