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Is Barbel fishing on the decline?

There's a very committed barbel angler that fishes the Lower Severn at Tewkesbury, he has had 80 barbel in recent years in a season, and as few as 40.

Last year he had................

ONE!!
 
From someone who has fished a very small and clear tributary for a number of years, I have gone through good and boom times, but never have I seen the river so devoid of Barbel and in recent years even Chub !!! In the upper reaches, certain fish still thrive, but I have no doubt that, as a whole the river is in decline.
Certainly since 2007 especially, whole year classes of fish disappeared........... They aren't in the main river that's for sure, because that is just as bad.
Why this is the case I could not answer. The fishing for species such as Dace is better than I've ever known it, so my goalposts have moved.
To add to this, when I was a kid, I could catch Gudgeon all day on my local free-stretch !!! I've not had one for ages. Bleak are also on the decline, as do the Perch seem to be again. When was a Bristol Avon match last won with a big net of Bream ??
It isn't just Barbel I'm sure, maybe the thriving species are too fast for aquatic (not airbourne) predators ?
In all, my interest in Barbel fishing has never been lower.............. A knock, in high water conditions, on my local Bristol Avon, is almost a result these days............
 
At the moment I would say the River Wye is probably one place many Barbel Anglers head for simply because of Barbel numbers..Its just like the River Severn used to be 20years ago, and look whats happened to that River over those years..Hopefully the Wye wont suffer the same fate as the Severn but I would guess it probably will end up just the same..Theres no point in denying that the mass majority of Rivers have and are witnessing the decline of Barbel for reasons we just don't know..
I think the attitude of "just get out there and fish and don't worry about the future" is very short sited ( Sorry Howard, no offence meant )..
Like Paul Matthews has said it does appear the smaller Rivers at the moment have taken the biggest hit and don't show any signs of recovery, although other species such as Dace, roach etc seem to have taken the Barbels place..
I actually believe that even restocking Rivers that have seen Barbel numbers crash, wont make a shread of difference as this has been done on a River local to me some years ago and they have just disappeared and the numbers of Barbel are still declining..
Is it just coincidence that on smaller Rivers where Otter numbers have increased, the Barbel numbers have decreased?..I don't know the answer to that so can only guess..

Dorset Stour
Hampshire Avon
Ouse
Cherwell
Bristol Avon
Thames
Teme
Severn

These are just the Rivers I know to, that have seen Barbel numbers nose dive im sure many on here can add to the list..

Does anyone on here actually believe that knowing these facts, can then say there is no problem?
If it can happen to the rivers mentioned, well it can happen to other rivers also..
This is my reason why I think Barbel fishing is definitely in decline and the future aint looking too good..:(
 
Craig - how do you know that Barbel are still in decline on your local rivers if, by your own admission, you haven't fished for them for a couple of years? Don't let the river reports on here fool you - the Barbel Police killed those off years ago so hardly anyone posts catches anymore. Hearsay and rumour? Before you tell me of the many well respected anglers that back up your theory let me remind all of the doom mongering front page in the AT 2001 that stated the "River Trent Is Dead" - backed up by many well respected anglers of the time - is it? Was it? No! Never! It was changing that's all - and it's a far better river for it.
You say that Barbel have been replaced by Dace and Roach on your rivers. Lucky you! While I have seen Dace thriving on all my local rivers Roach, sadly, are not. Otters? No. Cormorants? No. It's all down to water quality improvements at treatment plants removing phosphates that promote algae. River Roach relied on the algae as a primary food source. Dace prefer aquatic insects and as they do better if the gravels and other substrates are not chocked in algae it's logical that Dace will prosper while Roach decline. Other species like Trout and Grayling will do well, while species like Roach and Bream will be confined to the lower/tidal reaches of river systems.
 
Hi Andrew, I am aware that there are scare stories around concerning the dreadful effects 'phosphate stripping' by water companies is having on the riverine roach populations...i.e, that the water is now too clean to support algae, which leads to the decline of roach. However, as you seem to be a level headed sort of guy, forever loudly declaiming all the scare stories about the present imbalance in the predator/prey situation, I can't help but wonder why you find these other theories so much more to your liking :D

Now I am no expert in water treatment, far from it...and I do agree that water treatment plants do carry out Phosphate stripping.....but that is almost certainly only to remove the unnaturally high levels of these elements produced during standard sewage treatment. The nitrogen cycle involved in the breaking down of raw sewage produces large amounts of phosphates and nitrates, so I wouldn't mind betting good money that all this stripping is merely done to reduce the totally OTT levels produced in that way to a more natural and acceptable level. There are no doubt regulations in place that force them to do that....but why on earth would they want to remove more than they have to? The more they try to remove, the longer and consequently more expensive the process will become...that just doesn't make sense. I will lay you odds that they stop when they have addressed the imbalance they have caused, and have returned things to normal levels, which will be all their discharge licence requires them to do.

Again, the 'stripped' water theory can only apply to roach populations in rivers, stillwaters being completely unaffected by water treatment plants. And yet untold numbers of lakes and gravel pits etc. that once held fabulous stocks of roach are now virtually barren....after the 'black plague' arrived in never before seen numbers. Or is that all made up as well, lol.

Add to that the fact that in rivers they are only treating the water that comes to them via the sewers anyway, while the rest of the original volume remains untouched, and it sounds to me that this theory could well be another stab in the dark by people looking to blame something for an anomaly that they otherwise can't explain.

Or does that sort of thing only apply to the loonies who claim that predators kill fish....and that excessive numbers of predators = excessive numbers of dead fish :D:D

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Craig Wood said:
At the moment I would say the River Wye is probably one place many Barbel Anglers head for simply because of Barbel numbers..Its just like the River Severn used to be 20years ago, and look whats happened to that River over those years..Hopefully the Wye wont suffer the same fate as the Severn but I would guess it probably will end up just the same..Theres no point in denying that the mass majority of Rivers have and are witnessing the decline of Barbel for reasons we just don't know..
I think the attitude of "just get out there and fish and don't worry about the future" is very short sited ( Sorry Howard, no offence meant )..
Like Paul Matthews has said it does appear the smaller Rivers at the moment have taken the biggest hit and don't show any signs of recovery, although other species such as Dace, roach etc seem to have taken the Barbels place..
I actually believe that even restocking Rivers that have seen Barbel numbers crash, wont make a shread of difference as this has been done on a River local to me some years ago and they have just disappeared and the numbers of Barbel are still declining..
Is it just coincidence that on smaller Rivers where Otter numbers have increased, the Barbel numbers have decreased?..I don't know the answer to that so can only guess..

Dorset Stour
Hampshire Avon
Ouse
Cherwell
Bristol Avon
Thames
Teme
Severn

These are just the Rivers I know to, that have seen Barbel numbers nose dive im sure many on here can add to the list..

Does anyone on here actually believe that knowing these facts, can then say there is no problem?
If it can happen to the rivers mentioned, well it can happen to other rivers also..
This is my reason why I think Barbel fishing is definitely in decline and the future aint looking too good..:(
Click to expand...

Your reference to my short sightedness is a fair one Craig and perhaps the glasses I wear to correct that have a slightly daft rose tint to them. However, I was offering a different lens to look through as far as this debate is concerned. Not with a view to dismiss or invalidate the general sentiment concerning declining barbel numbers in a number of rivers. The reality of the situation can't be ignored and my personal experience of the Kennet matches that of others on this and other rivers.

My post represented a personal perspective on the need to adapt to this changing environment if fishing is to remain an activity to enjoy. BUT, doing this and caring,thinking,debating, taking action even, in relation to the various issues affecting our rivers are not mutually exclusive. I seldom post on the various threads we see concerning predation or flooding or dredging not because I don't care but because quite frankly, I do not possess the relevant facts that would enable me to post something that genuinely adds to the debate. But I do read these threads avidly.

It won't be long before a set of threads are started which share reflections on the season now ended and that will contain a mixed bag of experiences I am sure. My own report will say that it's been the best season for a long time. However, the conclusion will not be based on barbel numbers or sizes (but as an aside I will report that I can't remember catching so many "small" barbel on the Kennet in a season-quite a few in the 2lb-4lb class), it will be dominated by the different rivers I fished and for different species and the great fun I had doing so. On the way I met and fished with some great and knowledgeable folk and in the process I broadened my horizons and looked at the rivers and fishing differently.

So yes, I am saying we should get out and fish and adapt to the challenges we face. In doing so I think it is possible to put more back because our individual and collective wealth of knowledge naturally expands. I do think we can all do that, personal circumstances permitting of course, without being blind to the issues affecting our rivers and fish stocks. But maybe, we can attack those issues with more energy, enthusiasm and positivity and perhaps encourage or even inspire young anglers to join us.

Howard
 
Paul Matthews said:
From someone who has fished a very small and clear tributary for a number of years, I have gone through good and boom times, but never have I seen the river so devoid of Barbel and in recent years even Chub !!! In the upper reaches, certain fish still thrive, but I have no doubt that, as a whole the river is in decline.
Certainly since 2007 especially, whole year classes of fish disappeared........... They aren't in the main river that's for sure, because that is just as bad.
Why this is the case I could not answer. The fishing for species such as Dace is better than I've ever known it, so my goalposts have moved.
To add to this, when I was a kid, I could catch Gudgeon all day on my local free-stretch !!! I've not had one for ages. Bleak are also on the decline, as do the Perch seem to be again. When was a Bristol Avon match last won with a big net of Bream ??
It isn't just Barbel I'm sure, maybe the thriving species are too fast for aquatic (not airbourne) predators ?
In all, my interest in Barbel fishing has never been lower.............. A knock, in high water conditions, on my local Bristol Avon, is almost a result these days............
Click to expand...

Yes I know the Bristol Avon is in a real decline, it is perhaps along with the Teme suffered a spectacular fall from grace from where it was just a few years ago, Lacock and other such areas such as Limpley Stoke were a magnet for me and my kids, along with the old 'Fry's' section where the Topper Harris float was developed to bag 100lbs of Bream for the match guys. Malmesbury where 2lb plus Roach were possible, Perch in huge shoals, and even the odd Grayling.

I really despair, but there is no answers as to why, many reasons are given Abstraction in the upper river pollution predation, but the EA have not given any explanation and yet we still cough up the licence fee, this Quango is not fit for purpose as clearly demonstrated with the recent floods, and then we are treated to a baffoon in a Pickle taking charge and spouts even more mis information to appease the public.

They cannot manage the Badger perceived problem without shooting themselves in their own stupid feet, just how these clowns can be trusted with our delicate waterways is a mystery, truth is they can't :mad:
 
Neil Smart said:
Yes I know the Bristol Avon is in a real decline, it is perhaps along with the Teme suffered a spectacular fall from grace from where it was just a few years ago, Lacock and other such areas such as Limpley Stoke were a magnet for me and my kids, along with the old 'Fry's' section where the Topper Harris float was developed to bag 100lbs of Bream for the match guys. Malmesbury where 2lb plus Roach were possible, Perch in huge shoals, and even the odd Grayling.

I really despair, but there is no answers as to why, many reasons are given Abstraction in the upper river pollution predation, but the EA have not given any explanation and yet we still cough up the licence fee, this Quango is not fit for purpose as clearly demonstrated with the recent floods, and then we are treated to a baffoon in a Pickle taking charge and spouts even more mis information to appease the public.

They cannot manage the Badger perceived problem without shooting themselves in their own stupid feet, just how these clowns can be trusted with our delicate waterways is a mystery, truth is they can't :mad:
Click to expand...

Well golly gosh Neil, that certainly is a 'shooting from the hip' type post, no punches pulled, no blushes spared....and reality and truth stared straight in the face :D

Whilst I broadly agree with what you say, I find it slightly odd that you you enjoy a good rant about the reality of this situation, whilst in a previous thread call me Dave 'bear' Gauntlett for daring to list the realities...in a very reasonable manner I might add... in that one.

A person who enjoys exercising choices, or suffering from 'selective realities' I guess :D

OK, just being a bit mischievous Neil....I have slapped my own wrist as punishment :D:D

Cheers, Dave :p
 
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Craig. Please add the kennet and loddon onto your list.

I was pointing out what appeared to be happening over 4 years ago on this site but many advised it was simply gloom mongering and a different approach was all that was needed.

Having spent about 20 years fishing 3 times a week on the above rivers I felt quite confident highlighting the changes taking place.

Personally I am simply spending more time after species showing slow recovery.

The roach have spent 30 years to start to return. !!!!

There are still some old big barbel and a few more to catch locally. But most of my time will be spent trotting
 
How was your weekend's fishing sir?
Three knocks and a twang.
You lucky bugger.
 
David Gauntlett said:
Hi Andrew, I am aware that there are scare stories around concerning the dreadful effects 'phosphate stripping' by water companies is having on the riverine roach populations...i.e, that the water is now too clean to support algae, which leads to the decline of roach. However, as you seem to be a level headed sort of guy, forever loudly declaiming all the scare stories about the present imbalance in the predator/prey situation, I can't help but wonder why you find these other theories so much more to your liking :D

Now I am no expert in water treatment, far from it...and I do agree that water treatment plants do carry out Phosphate stripping.....but that is almost certainly only to remove the unnaturally high levels of these elements produced during standard sewage treatment. The nitrogen cycle involved in the breaking down of raw sewage produces large amounts of phosphates and nitrates, so I wouldn't mind betting good money that all this stripping is merely done to reduce the totally OTT levels produced in that way to a more natural and acceptable level. There are no doubt regulations in place that force them to do that....but why on earth would they want to remove more than they have to? The more they try to remove, the longer and consequently more expensive the process will become...that just doesn't make sense. I will lay you odds that they stop when they have addressed the imbalance they have caused, and have returned things to normal levels, which will be all their discharge licence requires them to do.

Again, the 'stripped' water theory can only apply to roach populations in rivers, stillwaters being completely unaffected by water treatment plants. And yet untold numbers of lakes and gravel pits etc. that once held fabulous stocks of roach are now virtually barren....after the 'black plague' arrived in never before seen numbers. Or is that all made up as well, lol.

Add to that the fact that in rivers they are only treating the water that comes to them via the sewers anyway, while the rest of the original volume remains untouched, and it sounds to me that this theory could well be another stab in the dark by people looking to blame something for an anomaly that they otherwise can't explain.

Or does that sort of thing only apply to the loonies who claim that predators kill fish....and that excessive numbers of predators = excessive numbers of dead fish :D:D

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave. Sorry, yes - there's me making the kind of factually incorrect sweeping generalisation that seems common on here - must be infectious! :D Of coarse it's not all about phosphate stripping - that's just one of many water quality issues to take into account but that theory does mirror my own experience on my local rivers. Loads of Dace and Trout - not many Roach except in the lower reaches where there's tons of em. Can someone explain to me why Cormorants don't eat Dace and Trout, or Chub for that matter because there's plenty of them too?! More's the point - if cormorants have eaten all the Roach why is Graham going Roach fishing? The simple answer is every river is different - and each has it's own problems which need attention. Each needs to be looked at on an individual basis and the best way to do that imo is by collaboration between the local Rivers Trust, local Angling Clubs and local conservation groups. Anyway, going back to your post and the comment regarding stillwaters. Stillwaters are not immune to water quality issues or pollution - infact they are more at risk than rivers if you consider a river can flush itself clean, a Stillwater can't and are at risk from progressive build up. We risk going way off the point of the original post so just to clarify, do you believe that the likes of BFW, Barbel Hunters, The Barbel Society, The Barbel Catchers, The Association of Barbel Fishers etc will all cease to exist in ten years time? May Barbus Barbus itself be extinct on our shores? Come on - seriously?
 
Andrew. I suspect the various algea strains blue red etc. On lakes kill far more fish than most river pollutants per year even allowing for colder summers.

However on lakes they tend to just restock as needs.

I think all the various societies etc will continue with depressed memberships.

Peoples expectations of catch rates will alter from the glorious 90's and many will become all rounders.
As many of the older barbel anglers started.

Not a bad thing really.

Graham
 
Andrew....where did I say that lakes were not subject to water quality issues or pollution? What I said was that the silver fish (including roach) stocks of many stillwaters have been seriously depleted in recent times....leaving some a mere shadow of their former selves. As enclosed waters do not receive the 'stripped water' that you claim is responsible for the decline of roach in rivers, then that can't be what did the damage to the fish populations in those lakes, now can it?

However, there was one occurrence that often coincided astonishingly well with that downturn in fishy fortunes....namely the arrival of previously never seen numbers of cormorants in the area. Rather than the occasional visiting bird or two as before, they now had them roosting by the lake in large numbers. Are you seriously suggesting that the massive increase of these piscivorous birds locally, and the decline of fish stocks in the affected lakes...was just pure coincidence? Really?

Cheers, Dave.
 
Barbel fishing became very easy in the early 2000s with the advent of pellets and use of high protein baits. Many new anglers, especially converted Carpers taking up Barbel fishing as an easy quick fix. The pressure put on fisheries and fish by this big boom has made barbel much harder to catch. As a result, many have sought easier fishing, not all anglers want to be challenged to catch fish and need something easier. Generally numbers are returning to what they were prior to the nineties. Thankfully, as Graham has said, many anglers have diversified and become either more general anglers or specimen anglers.
 
Ian Crook said:
Barbel fishing became very easy in the early 2000s with the advent of pellets and use of high protein baits. Many new anglers, especially converted Carpers taking up Barbel fishing as an easy quick fix. The pressure put on fisheries and fish by this big boom has made barbel much harder to catch. As a result, many have sought easier fishing, not all anglers want to be challenged to catch fish and need something easier. Generally numbers are returning to what they were prior to the nineties. Thankfully, as Graham has said, many anglers have diversified and become either more general anglers or specimen anglers.
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Yep, the goldrush days, lots of rivers having stockies, my local colne included, stockies that have mostly gone now.
 
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I guess we need to look at our our source material on this question . Clearly members posting on this thread are by and large reporting a decline in barbel catch numbers . However look on the river threads and you will see that he barbel are being hauled out in numbers from the Trent , the Wye , Dove etc . Read the Angling times and the Anglers mail and you will see regular reports of large Barbel from the supposedly barbel denuded River Great Ouse .As others have commented many people don't bother reporting their catches to the press or on fishing websites . I reckon things just go in cycles with all species of fish . In one of my local rivers the Yorkshire Ouse , it's on a bit of a down turn at present with barbel but it has always been a fickle river , some years good catches others hardly a fish . On the same river 10 years ago you could catch Ruffe by the netful ,recently they seem to have disappeared . Again on the Yorkshire Ouse , it was the same with perch , plenty of good size fish now but a few years a go they were a comparitive rarity .The same pattern occurs in all of the Ouse tributaries a phenomena that has been observed and written about for many decades
 
Andrew Boyne said:
Hi Dave. Sorry, yes - there's me making the kind of factually incorrect sweeping generalisation that seems common on here - must be infectious! :D Of coarse it's not all about phosphate stripping - that's just one of many water quality issues to take into account but that theory does mirror my own experience on my local rivers. Loads of Dace and Trout - not many Roach except in the lower reaches where there's tons of em. Can someone explain to me why Cormorants don't eat Dace and Trout, or Chub for that matter because there's plenty of them too?! More's the point - if cormorants have eaten all the Roach why is Graham going Roach fishing? The simple answer is every river is different - and each has it's own problems which need attention. Each needs to be looked at on an individual basis and the best way to do that imo is by collaboration between the local Rivers Trust, local Angling Clubs and local conservation groups. Anyway, going back to your post and the comment regarding stillwaters. Stillwaters are not immune to water quality issues or pollution - infact they are more at risk than rivers if you consider a river can flush itself clean, a Stillwater can't and are at risk from progressive build up. We risk going way off the point of the original post so just to clarify, do you believe that the likes of BFW, Barbel Hunters, The Barbel Society, The Barbel Catchers, The Association of Barbel Fishers etc will all cease to exist in ten years time? May Barbus Barbus itself be extinct on our shores? Come on - seriously?
Click to expand...

Can someone explain to me why Cormorants don't eat Dace and Trout? Possibly because both of those species are mighty quick swimmers and it will be the slower swimming species that get nailed
 
Jim Foxall said:
Possibly because both of those species are mighty quick swimmers and it will be the slower swimming species that get nailed
Click to expand...

If you believe that you'll believe anything Jim! What of all the Roach in the lower reaches of my local rivers. Presumably they are some of the fastest Roach in the uk? :rolleyes:
 
?

Irwell fifteen years ago was full of roach in the lower,not there now in numbers since the commarants appeared!
 
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