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I am a bit reticent about posting this.

K

Kevin Daly

Senior Member
As some may see this as trying to relight an old fire.
Eric Edwards posted this on the PAC facebook page. These guys were nicked because the PAC members who reported them did it right. They got the incident number and left the gill net in the river giving the EA, the likes of Chris Ponsford; the time and opportunity to act.

At Warrington Magistrates Court today, Gintarius Valiukonis and Arturos Bulota pleaded guilty to fisheries violations in retrieving gill nets and fish from the River Mersey on January 22nd of this year. They were caught by the Environment Agency fisheries team after information received from two Region 31 Pike Anglers Club members. Valiukonis was ordered to pay a total of £290 in fines and costs while Bulota was ordered to pay a total of £420.
The magistrates clearly took the offence very seriously as these were the maximum punishments allowed in law for these offences.

This is a good result but it will be made even better later today since the BBC were on hand to report on the case and it will be shown tonight on the BBC Northwest Tonight programme.

Please don’t let this thread degenerate into an EE bash, it doesn’t matter where they came from they were fish thieves. It does show what can be done if sensible procedures are followed.
 
Paul...what is official policy on such thorny issues now? Are certain subjects taboo now....like the possible ethnic links to increased fish stealing for instance? I understand the difficult and narrow path you are forced to tread in your need to attempt to run this forum in the way Andy wishes....but on the other hand, is it right to allow the blight of 'political correctness' to put an end to ALL discussion on such subjects?

What I am meaning is, Kevin quite reasonably said when starting this thread that he didn't want it to degenerate into an 'EE bashing' fiasco, as some threads have done in the past (and he has good reasons to be angered by blind prejudice). However, to my way of thinking, much of the 'degeneration' in those threads was caused by hotheads on both side winding each other up...from those claiming that EE's are the root of all evil, to those claiming that they are whiter than white....even to those who suggested that the subject should not even be broached. All of these extreme views, especially if they are poorly stated, are what cause anger....and the collapse of the thread.

Could we not have some sort of...I don't know...'three strikes and out' sort of system, where those posting obvious inflammatory or wind up style posts, those likely or intended to cause heated exchanges, are warned privately to cool it, or go? I would have thought something along those lines would be better than banning all discussion on certain subjects....if indeed that is the intention? Andy obviously wants this forum run along certain lines, and that's fine...he owns it. But best we know where those lines have now been drawn.

Just wondering :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
As I see it, Kevin, you're merely reporting an incident that took place and the consequences of the legal process that followed. Thanks for that. :)

This case has had a fair bit of publicity, probably because it's the exception to the norm, and probably the tip of the iceberg. I don't think those fines are much of an deterrent, however.
 
Richard Parsons said:
As I see it, Kevin, you're merely reporting an incident that took place and the consequences of the legal process that followed. Thanks for that. :)

This case has had a fair bit of publicity, probably because it's the exception to the norm, and probably the tip of the iceberg. I don't think those fines are much of an deterrent, however.
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Not 100% sure of this Richard but I believe these guys had all their gear confiscated. Having seen pics of the 2 PAC lads in question with the gill net I am really hoping that gear included the boat and engine outfit that must have been used to set that net. If it did that will smart.

You obviously think, like me and I would warrant just about everyone else on this site that the fines were inappropriately small. If that is the case then write to your MP, I have, has anyone else, will anyone else or would you rather leave it for the other bloke to do? Not aimed at you in particular Richard but the membership, mods and owner in general. Things can change but only if we anglers drive that change. I’d do a pole but am such a computer numpty I don’t know how.

Whichever way you slice it this is a victory for the legal angler, club member, club official and riparian owner everywhere.
 
membership, mods and owner in general. Things can change but only if we anglers drive that change. I’d do a pole but am such a computer numpty I don’t know how.

Id do a pole myself,were I not too long in the tooth,some nice ones in
Luton:D:D

Polls apart,nipped down to the local co-op and in the car park was a skoda VRS,
stopped for a butchers as looked nice,and a guy about 30 yo got out and said,
here take my keys and test drive it,i declined his nice offer but did sit inside,
in the nice rally type seats.When id finished my shopping,he came up and offered me and the missus a lift home,declined and thanked him as my van was parked in the road,shooh his hand and said nice to meet you.Nicest guy ive met
in years.........Told me he came to the UK from Bulgaria a year ago,and is a
vetranary surgeon.Changed my opinion of EEs somewhat:):)
 
The convicted men may be further prosecuted under the Proceeds of Crime Act (POCA)....it follows that if they are convicted of an offence that leads to them making money, that money represents criminal assets and should therefore be subject of Money Laundering charges and subsequent confiscation orders if the relevant Police force has the balls....!!

POCA allows for a judge to hear a separate prosecution case that outlines the total money illegally obtained by a convicted person and invites that judge to make a confiscation order in that sum....with the caveats of lengthening/increasing sentence should that sum not be paid upon strict timelines. It matters not what assets have to be realised to pay the POCA confiscation order - I have dealt with several POCA cases in the past and seen houses/cars etc having to be sold to pay the POCA orders in time to prevent lengthy custodial sentences being increased further...POCA powers are often described by defence barristers as draconian but to me they represent one of the very few legislative measures that are weighted firmly against the offender.

The money recovered under POCA is shared between CPS/Police, the Government and often victim/witness care programs.

This is only a potted description of the powers open to the Police under POCA but I'm sure you get the picture...the fines issued for the original offence are not always the total that a convicted person ends up paying if the Police decide to be robust.


Paul
 
Kev,

Help yourself mucker....as I say though, only a potted account of what powers are available to a proactive Police force under POCA.
 
Not gonna stop it ,and it,s not all for the table .I bailiff for wgcac,for many years ,and on many occasion i caught english guy,s in on the act .
 
Dennis Poole said:
Not gonna stop it ,and it,s not all for the table .I bailiff for wgcac,for many years ,and on many occasion i caught english guy,s in on the act .
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Inevitable Dennis. If the scumbags in our own community hear of another way to top up their benefits or whatever, they will be in there like a rat up a drain pipe to get 'their share'...any way, any how, any time.

Cheers, Dave.
 
David Gauntlett said:
Inevitable Dennis. If the scumbags in our own community hear of another way to top up their benefits or whatever, they will be in there like a rat up a drain pipe to get 'their share'...any way, any how, any time.

Cheers, Dave.
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David do you consciously or subconsciously strereotype all people on benefits?and you ''Tar every one with the same brush'' that are on benefits .
Is your perseption that people on benefits are all scumbags and are looking to get there share as you put it ? .

From your comment it sounds to me as if you do ? .
 
David Gauntlett said:
Inevitable Dennis. If the scumbags in our own community hear of another way to top up their benefits or whatever, they will be in there like a rat up a drain pipe to get 'their share'...any way, any how, any time.

Cheers, Dave.
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That's a huge leap , even for you, terrible comments.
 
Well I've had a nice week away at the seaside and come back to all this. That nasty Mr Cooper (the big bully) has been banned; Hooray, and that poor Mr Richard whatever his name is gas gone down as collateral damage, shame really as many of his posts showed a deep knowledge of his subject.
I see the poor old darkside has had a bit of a battering as well, if only some of the batterers could see my photo album of past fish ins organised by that site they might not be so keen to tar all the members with the same brush.
Meanwhile the chief doomsayer and the moral arbitrator of all things fishy are up to their usual tricks though rather than the target being the usual 'EEs' it is now those who are unfortunate enough to find themselves out of work who are the victims of their ire.
Some folks should take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror before the pass comment on others.:mad:
 
David Gauntlett said:
Yawn.....I really can't be bothered. Would hate to give poor Crooky and Hatter a baptism of fire :D

Cheers, Dave.
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You have already said it Dave, frankly what you had said should have had you banged to rights, pathetic, and I can only wonder what some that on here that find themselves unemployed might feel about what you said. You tick off to put it mildly those that in your eyes those that 'divide' angling, so how can you justify in dividing off a section of folk as you did?

Have you ever been unemployed? Do you know that feeling you get when when you really want to work you get thought of as a scrounger?
 
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